Bulger killers release - just? (page 3)

esther

Those two enticed Jamie, just an innocent toddler to go with them, then tortured and murdered him.
That shows they have a very sadistic inclinations.
ISP, you said

But life is not going to be any slam dunk for these 2. They will live in fear of anyone uncovering their identities. Their recent pictures have been leaked already and they have to be in constant contact with their parole officers. They also have to box clever when people inquire what they have been upto these last 6 years or so. Some people , i.e. local parole officers and clerical workers will know their identity etc. It is a matter of time before the info gets on the net or something.

I hope so!!

esther

qwerty

Official Website http://www.jamesbulger.co.uk/

YOUR VIEWS & SUPPORT

Denise - her married name is now Mrs Denise Fergus - welcomes your honest and constructive opinions.

She also invites any offers of help or information which may prove useful to the Justice for James campaign.

Send e-mails to: [email protected] or write to her at PO box 68, Kirkby, Merseyside L33 4HH.

qwerty

Simon

I hope they live in fear and have the most crappy life imaginable before being identified, discovered and killed.

Aren't I a horrible person? We have two boys aged 4 and 2 and if anyone did anything like that to them then I would not rest until I had avenged them. Too many liberal do-gooders causing massive harm for my liking.

trevor

The original sentence was for 15 years, which meant they would have left jail at 25 years old. Like many others I feel this was the correct amount of time they should have been detained for. They should have shown they could behave as adults and had a taste of prison life as a deterrent to further crime.

Their new identities are costing the taxpayer £1,500,000. The on going cost will be more. This money will be used to coach and train the boys to live a life of deceit and lie to everyone they meet about who they are and where they come from. How will this instil in them the virtue of honesty? They could marry and their wives would never know whom they were really married to. They could become babysitters and the parents would never know.

There is so much time, money and though going into protecting and upholding the rights of these killers but what about the rights of those in society who will be deceived and tricked by these young men and the authorities. Do people really pay taxes to be used in this manner?

Jang

Simon, when those boys were 4 and 2 I guarantee their parents may have felt the same way.

Put yourself now in the place of the parents of the two boys. You have just been told what they have done. You are horrified yes, but you love your boys. How do you deal with it all? And now, 8 years later, you have a lifetime of being separated from them and you know everyone is out for their blood.

Would you want what everyone wants if one of yours did the same thing at the same age. sometimes it brings persepctive to it all.

JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/

Englishman

Seeker,

I agree that "lawful killing" is never the answer.

Jan,

I can't feel too much pity for Thomson and Venables parents. Those 2 were always far too unsupervised, I recall that they were actually truanting on the day of the murder.

Trevor,

I agree, they should have served their full sentence.

Esther,

Too right they are sadistic, kids know right from wrong instinctively, especially in a situation like that.

Cautious,

I too wouldn't want those 2 walking the streets near me. Remember paedophile Sydney Cooke? He finished up living only 400 yards from me.

Englishman.

..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

Francois

Hey Seek: Sorry to have accused you of liberalism if you're not a sufferer.

Actually when you get right down to the brass tacks, I am conflicted on the subject. I do think that society has the right to protect itself up to and including capital punishment. However, as DNA testing has confirmed, there are evidently many folks in the lockup that shouldn't be there. The idea of executing an innocent person is appalling to everyone I think and that's the source of my conflict.

When you stop and think about the reasons people wind up in the slammer, it does give one pause. There's the prosecutor with political ambitions who's out to solve some case that will put him on the inside track to whatever office he's seeking. There's the fact that wholly innocent men have been accused of rape when the accuser knows better. There's a whole host of questionable reasons people land behind bars.

Then there's the fact of bureaucratic incompetence. Why would we trust to bring the guilty to justice the same type people who can't seem to get very much of anything right.

And have you noticed (in the US) how it seems that in virtually EVERY high-profile federal case, the prosecutors seem always to be charged with some kind of legal wrong-doing? Withholding exculpatory evidence is really high on the list. And you can't help but be suspicious about "confessions."

And all this is argument against the death penalty.

On the other hand, sometimes there is no doubt whatsoever. Like the two kids that kicked off this thread. When there's no doubt - off with their heads. Now someone has to be in charge of deciding when there's no doubt!?!

What to do, what to do.

Not so straightforward when you get it under the microscope.

And Jan - You paint with an awfully wide brush. I don't think for a minute that ALL research shows anything of the kind. Generalizations are utterly unserviceable in dealing with specific cases.

Francois

My $0.02

Seeker

Francoise, good words (well, I don't ever agree to capital punishment, but other than that part of your message, I agreed with what you said).

For what it's worth, I'm surprised those boys got out of prison so soon. I don't have any of the facts, but I suspect I would have wanted them kept in prison longer.

esther

Thank you Querty for putting up the web site.
Too much money has been spent on protecting those murderers. They should have served their sentences at least. Since they have been released, people have the right to know what they look like. They deserve to live in fear.

There are far too people worrying about looking after vicious thugs, and not the poor victim or his family.

Also, with their sadistic streaks, who will protect society from them?

esther

edited for grammar

Jang

I was a supervising mother and yet my son at 10 years old played truant a few times ... It was a while before I found out what he had been up to and only then because my son got into mischeif and got caught What really griped me is that the school was only just down the street from us ???

I realize that one cannot generalize on research but the childhood development studies are a good indicator of where a child of a given stage/age should be at up to adolescence. On that basis, taking all things into account, that they were into truancy, that is already indicative of a lower maturity/cognitive and social/moral development level as it was with my son just after we came out of the JW's.

It is a combination of the normal development of both that would restrain the average child from doing what they did. If their development had been hindered by their family environment, in addition to being exposed to violent TV, games etc, this could put them over the edge. My memory is that they had been watching a video which showed something similar only a day or so before the event.

Whenthey were deciding whether they were to be charged as children or adults, it was borderline, and for the sake of James's family they decided to treat them as adults. If they had charged them as children they would have only had cursory incarceration and then would have been released to their parents again.

For their sakes, I am glad they were charged and incarcerated under adult law. This would have given authorities free access to help them possibly learn what they had missed out on and help them come to the level of maturity they needed if they were to realize what they had done.

Should they now be incarcerated with adults who will teach them how to be professional criminals ..... what if they did do the next 7 years in an adult institution .... how would they come out of there? If it is like it is here, a lad in an adult prison for 3 years because of a misdemeanor at 17 comes out a fully educated criminal. That is why they are trying to keep the younger kids out of the prisons and put them on home detention and community service. Limit their lives like they are going to limit the lives of the two boys.

Their lives are not going to be free. They will be under constant survielance and supervision. Sure it will cost money, but it would cost money to protect them in a prison too. At least outside they can help pay their way by getting a job and paying taxes like everyone else.

No parent is perfect and all of us who have raised our children in the borg know that only too well. We thought we were doing out best for them and the parents of those boys probably thought they same. They, like us, could only parent to the degree they had been taught to parent.

As with most child criminals, it is a combination of events that lead up to the crime and given different circumstances ........?

JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/

Bulger killers release - just?

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