Witches

by Sirona 42 Replies latest jw friends

  • Tefcat
    Tefcat

    <<(e.g. you don't find people saying "hey guess what, Aphrodite came to see me the other day!" >>

    ROFPML!

    In my experience this is the sort of thing you come across in Pagan Moots quite often - usually uttered by the one dressed in head to toe black , carrying a staff and sporting a Pentacle the size of a serving plate!

    This is something of a modern phenomena, probably because of the culture you described as something like (can't remember exact words - having a senior moment!) reading one $ilverravingwolf book and deciding they are a natural born witch, initiated in the womb,and casting their first spell at two months old (yawn)

    Most of the most spiritually and magically advanced witches I have known in the 20 odd years since I was initiated, you could pass in the supermarket and never have a clue.

    Best Wytches,

    Tef

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    Tefcat,

    I was reading thru all this...one question I had (I am very confused... ), If a person IS wiccan, are they also a witch? And could one of you brainy witches please give me a very simple laymen's explaination about wicca? What is it? Someone said, 'They were born wiccan...?'

    Sirona,

    I had read some previous threads about this subject that you were in...I was actually going to start a thread, asking you some of the questions above. I met my wife's daughter about 2 years ago, she told us she was wiccan...I am sure she saw me *gasp* "A heathen, a pagan, oh my, oh my...!

    You see...although I had been fading a few years and divorced from my JW wife, I still had my JW judgmental ways. Since my time here on this board...I have turned 180 degrees. And getting married to a non-jw last year has really helped me shed a lot more of the superstitions and judgmental fears I learned for over 35 years as a dub.

    Now, I am interested in this subject...if for no other reason, to be able to talk to my daughter in law on some basis, about her beliefs. I would like to understand what makes her 'tick', what is it, why is it she's interested in this and what she gets out of it.

    After JWism, I honestly do not believe I could ever be involved with any type of organized religion again, although I still believe in God.

    Tell me more...

  • Tefcat
    Tefcat

    Hi Rabbit!

    lol this is a whole discussion on its own!

    In short, you may be a Witch but not a Wiccan, or a Wiccan and not a Witch , as explained by the definitions of the words below.

    A Witch is a person who practises the crafts of the witch, "Witchcraft", (see below) and may or may not follow a religious path. Theoretically, you can be a witch no matter your religious beliefs, IF that religion doesn't prohibit it. Mainly though, Witches work with Pagan deity, in my own case with the indigenous Gods and Goddesses of Britain, but certainly not of a Wiccan lineage from Gerald Gardner as this predates that.

    A Wiccan is one who practises a system of worship of Pagan deities stemming from the practises of Gerald Gardner, who claimed to have been initiated into a Coven of Witches, and promoted his ways of working and worship from the 1950's when the Witchcraft Act was repealed in Britain.

    It was he who used the term "Wicca" to describe the people who took part in these rites, and the system of worship itself. Simply put, Wicca is mainly a nature revereing religion, that recognises the Goddess as well as a God, has no sacred texts and no dogma. It is highly ethical with the importance of causing harm to none being paramount.

    The title "Wiccan" is hotly debated, with "Traditional" Wiccans claiming that a true Wiccan is only one of an initiated lineage back to Gardner or Alex Sanders ( Who also propounded a form of "Wicca"). This is hotly denied by a huge amount of self dedicated solitary Wiccans, who may choose to work alone and so not become initiated in to a Coven.

    Confused yet?

    " Traditional" can be used two ways, in my own case Traditional British Old Craft is used to describe a tradition that pre dates Gardner. However, seeing as Wicca has now been around for a couple of generations, it too could also be described as "Traditional" .

    Now, a Wiccan may soley concentrate on religious ritual and worship, without ever using the crafts of the witch such as spells, herbology, and divination, because thse things are not part of the religious practises. Though many Wiccans do, as a form of helping others, and so are both a Wiccan and a Witch. But if they don't they are not using Witchcraft, and therefore are Wiccans only.

    Technically, you can only be "Born "Wiccan" if your parents are Wiccan, but most Wiccan parents that I know let their children choose their beliefs, by bringing them up in a Wiccan environment without imposing their beliefs on the child. Mostly this type of claim is a form of bragging, or the mistaken belief that Wiccan means the same as Witch and it is the attraction of Paganism is what appeals from a young age and is meant by the phrase.

    I hope I have made this sufficiently clear, lol!

    Best Wytches,

    Tefcat

  • Simon
  • Gretchen956
    Gretchen956
    A Wiccan is one who practises a system of worship of Pagan deities stemming from the practises of Gerald Gardner, who claimed to have been initiated into a Coven of Witches, and promoted his ways of working and worship from the 1950's when the Witchcraft Act was repealed in Britain.

    This is more Brit than American, we don't really believe this on this side of the pond. Here Wiccan is more Starhawk, and often is associated with environmental activism (not always). Wiccans do not all believe hold to the god/goddess, some like myself (Dianic) see the male/female aspects in all of us, and worship the goddess only (in that broader sense).

    As to the statement earlier that most witches seem to be lesbian, I can assure you this is not true, not even a majority, even though I happen to be one. In fact I haven't been able to find another lesbian witch in the pacific northwest (not that I'm giving up trying). Most of the gay wiccans I have come across are male.

    There is a pantheon of gods/goddesses, another way of looking at this is that they are different faces, aspects, or personalities of the whole. One goddess may be the goddess of mercy/forgiveness, another might be the goddess of war, they are two different goddesses, but still reflect the divine whole.

    One thing I love about being solitary is that I can read (and I do, avidly) and learn from others, and pick those things that call to me, piece them together to find my own path that looks different than anyone else's.

    I have seen some start to defend what true wicca, but I think that those types are the same type that think there is only one path in the christian religion. I hope that we don't descend to that level, its very disturbing having been raised and lived as a witness for most of my life I see how destructive and divisive that thinking can be.

    I would like to join a coven for awhile to see what I can learn, but I don't see myself staying for many reasons, such as I want to keep my individual beliefs, I don't want to be part of an organized religion in any way again ever, and because it isn't always convenient for me (they seem to all be located in areas not too close to me).

    Thanks, Sirona, I've really enjoyed reading all the posts to this topic, to see all the diverse thinking and learn new things is always a very positive experience.

    Sherry

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Tefcat

    " Traditional" can be used two ways, in my own case Traditional British Old Craft is used to describe a tradition that pre dates Gardner. However, seeing as Wicca has now been around for a couple of generations, it too could also be described as "Traditional" .

    The coven I'm in does predate Gardner actually, because it was originally a family who "passed down" their book (and teachings) traced back to the turn of 20th century. Only in the 70s did a member of that family form a coven to welcome outsiders. The current HPS has been a member since the 80's. That is pretty cool, but honestly I think that our current methods are very gardenarian so I don't try to claim that my path is an "ancient" one. To be honest, it doesn't matter to me if the rituals were written last week.

    You gave a good overview of the complexities of trying to categorise pagan paths!

    Rabbit, I'm glad you found this thread helpful....do you have any specific questions?

    Sirona

  • Princess
    Princess

    Very interesting stuff. I'm coming back to read it all more carefully later when I have more time...might have a few questions then.

    It has reminded me of a speech at my niece's high school graduation a couple weeks ago. The speaker was talking about the changes some students have made throughout their high school years. She said one student, which she named, had entered the school as a wiccan but had become a christian. You could hear the gasps in the audience. I was thinking, she went from interesting to main stream boring. Oh well, to each his own!

    Rachel

  • arrowstar
    arrowstar

    Sirona -

    Thank you so much for starting this thread. Looking at all the responses, it's nice to know that I'm not alone in my beliefs. Good grief, I do believe that Gretchen and I are twin sisters of different mothers.

    As for a patron god/dess...Bast.

    Thank you again...I so needed to see this today.

    Lisa

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    Tefcat & Gretchen,

    Thanks for the viewpoints, it makes sense that different locations will have different outlooks -- that is healthy.

    I gleaned a little...but, damn...in some ways I am even more confused.

    Tell us more... I like the environmental friendly aspects and "Do no harm..."

  • gaiagirl
    gaiagirl

    What a great thread! Thanks for starting this Sirona.

    Wicca, and witchcraft in general, have experienced phenomenal growth over the past 25 years or so, due in no small part to the increasing amount of literature and other information available, and to the large number of people who were not comfortable in their traditional faiths, but until recently, knew of no other options.

    Some of the very best books for interested persons include:

    Drawing Down the Moon, by Margot Adler. This is an overview of the pagan movement, with details of quite a few different traditions, history of the movement, interviews, etc.

    The Spiral Dance, by Starhawk.

    Wicca, a Guide for the Solitary Practitioner, by Scott Cunningham. Very good basic books for newly interested ones (Cunningham was a very prolific author, and most of his titles are quite well done).

    Wicca by Vivianne Crowley

    Additionally, some films made in recent years touch on aspects of wicca and witchcraft, although not very often in an entirely authentic manner.

    "The Craft" and "Practical Magic" were both flawed to varying degrees, although if you watched carefully, there were nuggets of truth. Certainly, no witch in my acquaintance has walked on water, flew through the air, raised the dead, created awesome weather, or cast a spell intended to hurt another person in any manner. Some might instead attempt to work magic to draw positive energy into their own lives, and improve their own situation in some manner. Both of these films portray witchcraft as something kind of dangerous, something in which it is easy to get into trouble, and that is their major problem.

    As I see it, witchcraft is just another way of looking at the world. From the wiccan perspective, everything in the universe is connected to everything else, and everything influences everything else to a greater or lesser degree. Spells are just a way of adjusting things (or at least, attempting to adjust them)to a more desireable state.

    Witches don't usually view events as "predestined", but see people as the product of their genetics and their environments. Sometimes, people make choices (conscious or unconscious) which hurt themselves, or (because everything is connected) others around them. So, sometimes we experience things caused by what others have done.

    Some witches practice divination of one form or another. This isn't an attempt to foretell the future, but rather an excercise which clarifies the eventual outcome of the particular set of choices one has made. If one doesn't like where that path is going, one may choose to make different choices, effectively "stepping onto another path".

    Witchs accept responsibility for their own actions, believing that whatever they do will come back to them, perhaps several times over. This seems preferable to blaming every negative action or event on some external influence (i.e. "the Devil made me do it" or "they were possessed by demon").

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