Neutrality....

by PriestessLizzie 34 Replies latest jw friends

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  PriestessLizzie

  Frankly, I have kind of a hard time buying your story with this, as well as your bit about eating meat

  First off...My story isn't for sale nor are my opinions. They are mine and I thought this forum was a place to speak freely. I promise you I have far better things to do with my time then make up a story about my life and try to sell it to a bunch of strangers on the net....and if I ever become that pathetic I beg of you to shoot me and put me out of my misery. Second...the meat bit was sarcastic (thus the *gasp*) It was, along with the TV theory and the alcohol bit, one of the many myths that "worldly" kids used to tease me about when I was growing up "Ha ha you cant eat meat". That's all there is to that whole thing. However, the point of it all was to bring out the fact that people raise their children differently, even within the same "molded" organization. My parents weren't as strict on me as my best friend's father was on her-Not because she was a Witness, but because that is how he chose to raise her.

  What made you choose to be Pagan, like the actor & magi up there?

  Well, it was a struggle I assure you-especially after having been taught my whole life that pagans were evil. The whole reason I first became interested was because of my inner belief (or desire in a way) that there MUST be a female deity up there somewhere. Male and female animals, male and female humans, even male and female plants. If we were all made in God's image (oh yes back when I believed the bible was infallible) then how could God be only male? The more I learned about the pagan's beliefs (or i should say the foundation of it) the more everything started making sense to me. When I was a little girl I used to dream about Armageddon happening right in my bedroom. It was rather scary I would say, this huge war between God and Satan all around my little twin size canopy bed. But, it didnt frighten me because beside me was woman who watched over the fight to make sure I would survive it. Even as a child I knew there was more than just God. I used to have dreams that would come true a lot too-psychic visions. I could often times make things happen by whispering (chanting) to myself over and over again something (now- not Hollywood type magic either. I cant twitch my nose and clean the house...trust me, I've tried!) To me, I had these things happening that seemed so bad, so evil. (JW's are not the only ones who see it this way either. But that's a story for another time) When I learned about Wicca (paganism) it all just fell into place. I'm very happy now and feel spiritually content--and I'm not in a coven, not in an organized religion at all. I practice solitary and on special occassions (pagan holidays) I will meet with my best friend (also another story for another time) and soul sister (yes, I believe in past lives too) to celebrate. My viewpoint on religion is really quite simple. There are many paths to God (God, Goddess, Higher Power). Because everyone is different, there has to be. What works for one person won't work for the next. But eventually I think they all lead to the same place. For example, my ex and I drove to Canada a couple years ago to visit his parents. I like mountain scenery so I chose the more mountainous route. My ex boyfriend, on the other hand, prefers the ocean and chose coastal routes. But our destination was the same. To me, the path to ultimate spirituality and peace is through paganism. (Oh and Avishai....*grins* If you ever wish me to invite you to join me in my plot to rekindle the Beltane Fires (in all their glory) I must ask you to refrain from calling me crone. *sighs, has issues with that whole "32 and statistically being an old maid" thing* seriously, blessed be to you too.)

  try not to be pro-witness that much...

  I point you to the topic's title. "Neutrality" I'm neither pro nor anti witness. I have my opinons and perceptions which are bound to differ from others. By stating my experience with them doesn't mean I'm defending them nor "for them". Every organized religion has its flaws because they are founded and run by humans who are flawed. One of the beauties in life, in my opinion (which i tend to say a lot here for some reason), is that we are all given a choice to choose and are created to be unique in our own way. We fail. We learn from those mistakes (hopefully) and try again. I just happen to believe that out of all the Christian religions out there, the Witnesses, or the majority of them I should say, do try to follow the bible's "guidelines" with good intentions moreso than the majority of other organizations. I've studied many, attended many, and out of them all the Witnesses left me with the greatest impression of love, kindness, and generosity. Again, this was MY experience. Does this mean they are flawless and right? Obviously not or I would still be one. I dont believe they are a cult-but that doesn't mean anyone else cant. We all have a right to our own opinions.

  I didn't join this forum to debate with anyone, nor to preach to anyone, nor to ruffle anyone's feathers. I joined because I was curious as to other's experiences and because I could perhaps share my own. I again ask you all to remember that just because my experiences were not as negative as some of yours, to not assume that I am brainwashed or flawed. I am not PriestessLizzie, Defender of JW's around the world (though the superhero suit might look cute, hmm wonder if they have one in my size.) I like hearing other's viewpoints on theology, what they believe, and voicing my own. I guess when it comes to religion I'm a mutt. I take bits and pieces that make sense and utilize it in my own faith. I honestly dont believe God (or Goddess) expects us to follow to a T any one religion, but instead expect us to search within ourselves and follow the path that is best for us-or make our own paths in my case.
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  Fe2O3Girl

  Welcome to the board Priestess Lizzie!

  I could not work out from your post if you were ever baptized, and if so, what is your status now?

  I look forward to hearing more from you!

  Rachel
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  PriestessLizzie

  *hates insomnia*

  I was baptized at the Light Bearers Convention in '94 (i believe was the year). I disassociated myself in '97.

  Story time, since I cant sleep and the alarm is going off in 30 minutes:

  I was raised in the truth and embraced it. Truly dedicated to Jehovah and the faith. My father died in May of '87 when I was 14 years old from a heartattack. I was forced to go to meeting that night by my parents instead of staying home with him (he got home late and had said he was tired but overheard him saying he was having chest pains). I remember the night vividly. Half-way through the opening song, I felt him dying. I got up and ran outside to cry, for the first time in my life I asked God to answer a selfish prayer: Save my father's life, don't let him die. But I knew the instant he was gone, I could feel him ripped from me. We stayed the entire meeting and left immediately following the closing prayer. I found my father in bed, phone off the hook, long gone. DOA. I was angry, to say the least. Angry that Jehovah wouldn't grant me the one thing I asked for in prayer that was for myself, angry that I had to go to meeting instead of stay home with him...and extremely angry that at the service I was told by more than one elder and pioneer that he would not be ress'd because he was disfellowshipped for smoking. As I stated earlier, this was a misconception that a few years later was retracted in the Watchtower and by those that told me that. Well, I went off the deep end. I was rebellious, yet I remained true to the faith. I had a dream one night that disturbed me-in it I had sex, was doing drugs, was smoking and drinking heavily (all of which I had never done before with the exception of the drinking-I'd gotten drunk once before; two days after my father died-fifth of JD no chaser: I dont reccommend this to anyone ). I wrote a letter to my friend telling her of the dream and my mother found it. She took it to the elders out of concern for me and I was disassociated under the assumption that I had done those things (Of course I didn't bother to deny it more than once since I was all angry anyway). I figured, if i'm going to be accused of it, I might as well do it. And I did. Two years later my niece was born and was very sick. The hospital took custody away from my sister and her husband to give the baby a blood transfusion. They put too much thinner in the blood, however and she slipped into a coma. I begged God to save her-the second heartfelt selfish prayer of my life...she died at the young age of 11 days old. More anger. I got pregnant when I was 18 and decided to return, wanting my child to have the same teachings and morals as I had. I forgave, and I was forgiven and welcomed back with open arms (by then it had come out that you couldn't be disassociated unless you were actually baptized)

  I was married (as that was the right thing to do) and soon thereafter divorced. I raised my daughter on my own for years (still am actually-she's 12 now), baptized when she was two, and on the verge of entering into full time pioneering. I started feeling lonely, however. I wanted nothing more than that family- a husband, a father for my child, and even another baby. My prayers went unheard (well I thought they were unheard, now I know they were just unanswered in the way I wanted them to be answered) and oddly enough every time I prayed for it there would be an article in the Awake about the "blessings of remaining single". After a few years of these answers from Jehovah, or so I thought, I gave up. I realized I was destined for lonliness my entire life. The worst part was going to conventions (which I truly enjoyed) and seeing the young people meeting and forming new relationships. One in particular was a young brother I developed a crush on. A young lady started attending the meetings, she was still married. He took a liking to her. Two days after her divorce they were officially engaged. I was outraged, hurt, and devastated that I who had devoted so much to Jehovah throughout my lifetime, had no one while she who had just found Jah was blessed with the guy I liked. Meanwhile, the only other sisters in the congregation my age had all found someone. I was still alone-a single mother. I broke down one night, letting my mother take my daughter to meeting with her while I literally bawled and begged and pleaded with Jehovah one last time to help me. The very next day a sister I looked up to and respected (one of the 144,000) came to visit me with an Awake...guess what it was about. Go on, guess. Hmmm, the blessings of remaining single. blah blah. I couldn't stand it anymore. I couldn't go to the meetings and see the love and happiness surrounding me while I felt like I was dying inside. So I stopped going. I'd only attend Assemblies/Conventions and Memorial. The brothers and sisters would visit often, encouraging me, helping me through rough times (materially I was not well off at all) but I still didn't feel comfortable going to meetings. I didn't blame Jehovah, I didn't blame the organization-I was just drowning in my own self pity and miserable belief that I would never be pretty enough or good enough to catch a man's -especially a brother's- eye. Now, while all this is going on, I'm thinking I'm being punished for my questioning why there isn't a female deity, punished for the psychic visions I've had all my life, punished - not because that was what they were teaching me (on the contrary, the elders and the pioneers who visited all assured me it was not God punishing me, that he didn't do that sort of thing), but because God wasn't going to answer my prayers- until I stopped it somehow. That's when I met my best friend and soul sister Christina. She was raised Catholic (woah the stories she could tell you about that one) and started telling me her feelings on religion and God and Goddess. She made more sense to me then what I was taught. Eventually I figured out what I really believe, accepted it, and am content.

  The End...well for now, anyway.
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  avishai

  Lizzie, I apologize for the tone of my post if I offended, There have just been alot of trolls on this board. Once again, welcome!!

  Oh and Avishai....*grins* If you ever wish me to invite you to join me in my plot to rekindle the Beltane Fires (in all their glory) I must ask you to refrain from calling me crone

  Won't happen again!

  My father died in May of '87 when I was 14 years old from a heartattack

  ((((lizzie))) Mine died when I was 13 of cancer. He was only 33.
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  proplog2

  Your experience is similar to many in ALL religions. I'm glad to see someone else on this forum who is determined to play fair. Even though I have posted a lot of stuff here refuting specific Watchtower teachings it gets very little viewing. Farkel has the same complaint. But all you have to do is post something that is in the interest of fair treatment and suddenly the view count goes into hyper-mode. Sex & Politics are also very popular subjects here.

  Don't take this forum too seriously. The participants have turned it into its own little cult. They'll help you primarily if you have decided to oppose JW's. If you are the least ambivalent they will attack with their own style of social pressure - ridicule.

  Believe me I am talking from experience.
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  larc

  Welcome Lizzie. I agree with you on some points and disagree on others. Like you, I do not believe that the Witnesses are a cult. I have debated this point on several ocassions on the forumn. I do think, however, that they are a high control religion, about half way between a sect and a cult, as defined by socialogists. (since I can't do paragraphs I will try this) ............................................................................................ Like you, I think that the vast majority of Witnesses are good, sincere people who are trying to do their best. I don't have a quarrel with individuals. I do have a quarrel with the organization. I think they have many policies and procedures in place that are flawed. I think that the elder system is especially flawed. I think that the local congregations were better run before the institution of the elder arrangement. I also think the governing body is far worse than how the organization was run before its inception. ............................................................................................ Like you my JW mother was more liberal than other parents and allowed me to bend the rules in some areas. Unlike you, I was shunned even though I was never dissfellowshiped or disassotiated. My sister shunned me for 15 years. After a family crisis, me, my wife and my sister had to work on together, my sister has been very warm towards me. We converse on a regular basis. ............................................................................................ I have read many stories here where people were badly mistreated. I can't say if these stories are random or representative of all who have left. Perhaps, this place draws more people who have an axe to grind. Many of those who have experiences like yours may not feel the need to come here and seek out confirmation. I just don't know. At any rate, I am happy for you that your transition out of the religion and on to a different belief system was a relatively easy one.
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  Ciara

  Welcome, lizzie.

  Even though I do not agree with your viewpoint, I applaude you for speaking your mind. You certainly have the right to have your own opinion. Many here have been treated very badly by the witnesses and probably won't like some of your comments, but please understand that it's the hurt talking. It's probably good for us all to hear a neutral viewpoint.

  Ciara
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  PriestessLizzie

  Avishai: No offense taken, I assure you. I do not offend easily-I just wanted to make sure that I meant no offense. Your father was even younger than my own. My dad was just 44. Far too young for heart failure Of course, we're all too young to die I think. Anyway, deal is on. Beltane babeh!

  Proplog2- I never take anything TOO seriously. But everyone has a right to their opinion and should be allowed to voice their opinions openly, well unless it's not valid and only used to bash someone or something. That holds no value to me. There are many things that were taught that were good and useful, and some that were not. Yes, there are members of every religion out there that are disgruntled with the teachings they were raised with, such is the way of the world. That is why I hold firm to the belief that there is not one true religion but rather several different paths to the Higher Power.

  Larc: I imagine those that do not have any qualms with the faith would have no reason to join in on forums that would appear to "bash" or be completely negative towards something they either still hold dear or have no opinion of. I am just overly curious and friendly perhaps. Or maybe somewhere deep inside I felt like helping in my own way- Its sad to see so many letting anger and hatred consume them over things they cannot change. Venting is one way to ease that and so therefore this forum is good. On the same token its good to move past that and look at how we as individuals can heal from the pain, learn from the experiences, and move on to a better place-with or without "organized" religion.

  And now sadly I must return to the real world and go back to work. Lunch just goes too quickly, dont you think?
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  PriestessLizzie

  Oooh, and thank you Ciara. I am not asking anyone to agree with my viewpoint-but that doesn't mean I wont share it

  I've been hurt too (if you see the experience of my time in the "truth") but, I was taught to forgive, to understand that ALL humans make mistakes. Statistically however, more people have had good experiences in ANY religion then those that have had bad. Why statistically? Because its the negative things that seem to get broadcasted and focused on the most. The wounds need healing and healing happens by tending to them (emotional wounds are tended to by talking through it, coming to terms with it and I think eventually finding forgiveness and putting it in the past where it belongs). The great thing about forums like this- you find people who relate with you, who understand where you've been...and even if the viewpoints are different, they can become great supporters and friends during and after the healing process.

  Really going now.
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  Dawn

  Hi Priestess:

  Welcome to the forum. There was a time when I would have agreed with you in that I had pretty much put the JW stuff behind me. I'm no longer affected by their doctrines but did feel sorry for people who were still in and felt trapped.

  However - this has changed recently and I will gladly announce that I am one who HATES the organization. My HATE is not because some of unrecognized love for the org but because of a deep love for my mom. My father was a faithful witness and elder for years. He passed away a few years back and that was hard on my mom - then shortly afterwards my brother was murdered which put her into a tail-spin depression. My husband and I live close to her so we jumped in and took care of her. We have helped to support her financially, but more importantly, emotionally. We took her out places, had her over, went to visit her a lot. Basically just kept her busy with us and the grandkids. I also drove her to meetings and encouraged her to do things with her JW friends. I didn't believe in the org any longer but it's what she wanted so we supported her in that. She had me and two other sons left. I have two brothers left - one lives over 2,000 miles away and although he'd love to help mom out he's too far away. The other brother lives here but because of his own issues he refuses to have contact with her. He has not seen her since our father's funeral over 3 years ago - and yes, he's an elder too.

  This was all fine because my mother had me, my husband, and the grandkids so she wasn't alone. Then a few months ago a "loving brother" had a talk with her and told her she had to cut off her association with me. So this left my mother completely alone - she lost her husband, lost her son, has one son too far away, another son who doesn't want her, and a daughter that loves her but she can't see. I have watched my mother go down hill so fast in the last few months it's very sad. She's depressed, lonely, and I really would not be suprised if she didn't make it one more year on this earth.

  All thanks to this loving organization of brothers and sisters who have required her to cut off the only family support she had here.

  So Yes - I DO HATE this organization. And it's for good reason. In my opinion it's a hurtful, controlling, monstrosity that should be put out of it's commission and the elder who spoke to my mother recently is the most useless piece of human flesh alive.

  However - I'm sure there are other issues on which we'll agree and I look forward to seeing more posts from you!