Neutrality.... (page 3)

El blanko

Don't take this forum too seriously. The participants have turned it into its own little cult. They'll help you primarily if you have decided to oppose JW's. If you are the least ambivalent they will attack with their own style of social pressure - ridicule.
Believe me I am talking from experience.

Hehe - I believe you. I've been coming here for a few years now and signed up only this year. This board is simply the same as every other busy community board IMO The only unique feature being the common link of the JW experience.

I do not always commit to threads myself because of the whole "ridicule thing" - I have some odd views I guess, but rarely share them here.

I do enjoy reading the threads with real meat - even JCs monologues have a certain appeal.

Carmel

Lizzy, I guess I am interested in seeing what you see as you generalized about "so many that are consumed with anger". I responded in a manner, I thought was rational and logical that there are all types here. I actually see very few that are really angry, and the ones that are generally have a pretty good case. Luckily I left the "publishing corporation" before too much damage was done and have been away from it for neigh on to 45 years. Many here are trying to extricate themselves from it, but are consumed with anxiety over the real threat of being shunned by friends and family, not unlike the mob. Hence my statement that we are all in different stages of recovery. I am still surprised that the title of your post belies your belief that so many here are grieving. No one has tried to stifle your participation or has over-reacted to you. Please realize many are not used to having healthy debate over issues. They have been nurtured in a cloistered system that did not allow discent or conjecture.

cheers,

carmel

PriestessLizzie

Carmel your post to me has me completely confused and made me go back and reread every post I have made 4 times over.

Lizzy, I guess I am interested in seeing what you see as you generalized about "so many that are consumed with anger". I responded in a manner, I thought was rational and logical that there are all types here.

The whole point of my saying ("Generalized") was that it wasn't directed to anyone specifically. Your response leads me to believe you think I was talking about you (you being Carmel). Please note again the generalized. Its no one specific.

I am still surprised that the title of your post belies your belief that so many here are grieving.

My title is of neutrality which is my stand on the organization itself. I do not hate it, I do not support it. I am neutral. How does that insinuate that i do not believe so many here are grieving? I do hope you know the difference between surprise and disbelief.

No one has tried to stifle your participation or has over-reacted to you.

I agree 100%. In fact, if you read my posts again you will see that I was thanking everyone, including yourself, for the warm welcome. I have not felt unwelcomed or that any of my posts have been taken the wrong way. I many times may see someone who misunderstands what I was saying and so therefore have to explain myself...because that is the type of person I am. I believe in communication and find it of utmost importance in life. And finally....

Please realize many are not used to having healthy debate over issues.

I am not here to debate as I have stated time and time again. Debate to me is when you try to convince someone else to share your viewpoints, to argue about who is right and ultimately there is a final winner. To me, this is a discussion forum where people can voice their opinions, share them with others, and in turn hear other's experiences. In the end, we are all winners by communicating our thoughts and ideas. I must assuredly will debate you on the issue of my debate, sir.

Dawn I'm really sorry that happened. I know my mom would be completely devastated to have to choose between Jehovah and her daughter. Thank goodness she knows that Jehovah would never ask her too, and the local congregation she goes to doesn't ask (force, demand, etc etc)her too either. This is a perfect example of the hypocrisy in most organized religions today. They teach to love, to forgive, to be like God... They teach that God loves the flock (the church) as his own children...I believe actually this is true, he does love us as he loves his own. And I tell you what, my kid could be the worst human being in existance but I would always love her and I would always try to help her. God would never turn his back on any of his children and if we are supposed to be like him, then we should not turn our back on our children either. Period. Hypocrisy. I could go on forever with that and probably would be best to have that topic all by its lonesome.

Dawn, I hope that you and your mom can work through this and reunite. *huggles*

larc

Lizzie, in your response to me, you mentioned people who have no qualms with the religion. I was not referring to such folks. I was referring to those who have qualms and that is why they left. I certainly had qualms. Like you, it was not the people, but the belief system that caused me to leave. I knew that I would lose many friends as a result, many that I had from early childhood, but I could not be a hypocrite and stay in a religion that I no longer believed. ............................................................................................ Am I angry? No, but I do occasionally become angry when mistreated by a Witness, which has happed on several occasions over the years. Those are stories for another day, I quess. ............................................................................................ Carmel, wow, out for 45 years. You are one of the few that have been out longer than I have. I have been 42 years. We should swap stories about the "good old days" sometime, here on the forumn. Some things were much better back then.

wednesday

Prietess

does your family know u are involved with the pagans? I must say u have a progressive jws family-like none i have ever heard of. From the sound of it, u may have been one of the "lucky" ones, family well regarded in the cong. and well liked and even if u went astray, others still courted u. this does not happen to most of us peons. but it is a big world and there are lots of stories.

weds

Cassiline

No one was ever "forced" to remain a member of the faith (unlike cults), in my 20+ years of experience with them.

Hi lizzie

Wecome to the forum, glad you found us. I just want to say I agree with some of your post but take exception to some including the above statement. One was forced to stay at least until 18 years old. If you did do something that got you DFed then you were shunned and lost your family. This is a very strong reason to stay in a cult, manipulation of your life and loved ones. No one wanted to be little Johnny who was at the meetings with his Mom and Dad being looked at like he had three heads and one growing out of his ass. No one wanted to die in the great tribulation. These are all types of mind control which are heavily used by the JWs-- a cult.

I hope to see you around and get to know you better. Welcome again

Cassi

proplog2

Cassiline & P-Liz:

Cassiline just used a term that is a favorite of the "cult" bashsers. - "mind control".

This forum could be accused of mind control. Minds ARE for the purpose of control. Minds are reactive. I don't consider my mind to be any more important than my liver. Minds are supposed to be controlled. They evolved for that purpose. The mind (and nervous systems) make sure we learn our survival schemas verry well. The mind tries to repeat what works best. Our complex brains developed to figure out what is going on in a group of about 100-120 people. Humans need other humans to survive. We are predisposed to being controlled by "the group". So much of what we call thinking is just the echos of the group of which we are members.

This forum makes up a group AND they try to control posters. Look how they are trying to hammer P-Liz. As I mentioned before they use ridicule NOT fact to keep you in line. There is a part of our organsim that can protect you from being controlled. That is your senses. The senses function to orient you. . We all have to work at keeping our "senses" objective and free of "group-think". Once the mind takes over you lose your "sense". Your mind will try to tell you what you are seeing. There is an old '60's hippie psychology expression "lose your mind and come to your senses". Zen practice tries to help a person shut the mind up so that they can REALLY see what they are looking at.

Most on this board post the way this board wants them to post. Aint' the Watchtower the worstest thing that ever happened. By playing this game you have merely moved your mind from one group to another.

ohiocowboy

Cassiline

Cassiline just used a term that is a favorite of the "cult" bashsers. - "mind control".

Hi Proplog

Since Lizzies comment focused on the JWs I answered about the JWs. However if you wish, perhaps I should have said I believe that many religions use forms of mind control or are cultish as the JWs are to include Mormons and others.

This I say from experience Prop, if it were not for the fact that years after leaving the JWs I still have things I am fearful of because of their teachings and because I believe fear begets control of what one does for religion then this is mind control-- my comment still stands. Perhaps clarified or not for you.

"Minds are reactive"...

which is parlayed into control through fear by such groups as the JWs and others.

Cassi

proplog2

Cassiline:

Perhaps its your temperament. Some people are definitely more succeptible to group-think than others. Psychologists have a scale they call field-independence. Some people defiantly resist group-think. Like Farkel. He is naturally defiant. He can't join anything wholeheartedly.

Neutrality....

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