by onacruse 133 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Terry
Santa Claus is a false entity. The impact of a false entity is very real. If I have a heart attack because I think there is a ghost in my closet, then, I may die even if the ghost isn't real. Would you not say that dying of a heart attack BECAUSE of a false belief is avoidable?
To believe in Santa and help yourself survive an illness would be a good belief then?
Sirona
Also
5.Religion postulates the existence of "maybe" existing things and then demands we change our lives and live serving them. Has the human race improved as a result?
Not all religion does demand that. I believe in Gods but I don't serve them.
Sirona
Derek:
Given that I know very little about string theory I have little to fall forward/backwards on - LOL.
So, are you sure you'll get through the airport ok?
LOL
8.Mysticism deals with unprovable things, hidden things, pretended "realities" and gives people a sense of wonder, amazement, a thrilling sense of possibility. So what is wrong with that? Nothing as long as you don't LOSE TRACK of the unproven aspects. Masturbation can be a pleasant relief. The mind pretends certain stimulating thoughts and a physical result ensues. That isn't harmful unless a certain line is crossed and real relationships with actual partners are discarded in preference.
I agree with this mostly. However I still stand by the fact that individuals can experience things which to them are very real and which are as yet not proven by science. For instance someone may have a dream which predicts a future event (which they couldn't have known about) and that event happens days or weeks later. No matter what scientists say about this being impossible, the individual still experienced it and therefore believes in premonitions.
Sirona
10.We only have a finite amount of time. We use our time wisely or we waste it. If we improve our lives, increase our assets, enlarge our sphere of influence, expand our circle of true friends, provide security for ourselves and our loved ones it can only come from CLEAR thinking. Clear thinking distinguishes important reality from unimportant fantasy. To get those two things mixed up has an impact. Look at a person's life and you'll immediately see the quality of their thinking!
Terry,
Fantasy isn't unimportant, it is a very important part of us as humans. Look at artists - they couldn't paint with inspiration without using that part of themselves. We all need inspiration and imagination - fantasy - to be fully human, IMO.
You deny yourself anything that is beyond testable science. What a mundane life that must be!
Sirona
FD
I don't understand this. How would you know if you were standing in front of a mountain?If we can't measure them, they are indistinguishable from nothingI can't see how this statement can be supported. I can be standing in front of a mountain and simply not have the tools to measure it. You might say, but the tools exist. And I would answer that the mountain existed before the tools existed, or could have.
What? I don't understand what you don't understand. I experience the mountain, or think I do, whether i have tools to measure it's height. Surely my point was obvious? Or are you just winding up the silly American cow?
What? I don't understand what you don't understand. I experience the mountain, or think I do, whether i have tools to measure it's height. Surely my point was obvious? Or are you just winding up the silly American cow?
My point was that "experiencing" the mountain involves seeing it or feeling it or feeling its effects. If you can't see the mountain and it doesn't block the sun or the wind and you walk towards it and remain on level ground, how is that different from there being no mountain?
?funkyderek?:
Of course Santa exists, but only in the sense that any fictional character exists; as a concept, an idea.
?Sirona?:
A thought often preceeds something being created, such as when someone thinks about an invention. Once that thought exists, I think that the universe will never be the same as it was before that thought ever was there. I see thoughts as being influential on a physical level . . .
Actually, I think that you are both right, in a sense. A thought does precede something ?created,? which can be in the form of a physical thing or action, a cultural anecdote, or a religious doctrine.
In the religious sense, ideas get formulated, amalgamated, promulgated, and, over time, solidified?the end product sometimes being a long-standing socio-religious judiciary framework (such as the Koran, Jewish Law Code, Torah, Talmud, Bible), or even the mythological or theological ?characters? themselves purportedly behind such framework (Nebo, Dagon, Baal, Zeus, Isis, Hermes, Shiva, Ganesha, Vishnu, Allah, Jesus Christ, ?God?/Yahweh/Jehovah).
The character Santa Claus is also the product of such ?thought.? Aside from the fact that there supposedly was, in fact, such a man in history named Saint Nicholas (whose story is no-doubt a wee bit different than the red-suited, gift-bearing marketing guru of late), there does, in fact, also exist that same physical character today?in the form of a consortium of men acting out the role in your local supermarket.
Regarding the Santa Claus phenomenon, I believe that the cognitive-demonstrative process goes something like this:
? A man named Saint Nicholas did come onto the historical stage for what he was, a Catholic hero or something (I forget the actual story?I?m not going to dig up the Awake! article for the purpose of this post!).
? Someone had a ?thought? that ?preceded something being created??that ?something? being the factual account of Saint Nicholas embellished into a fanciful tale of folklore.
? Then, that fanciful tale of folklore became promulgated into what is now classical literature.
? That classical literature evoked admiration, and led to a common social practice, namely, the telling to children the tale of a red-suited, gift-bearing character visiting people?s homes at night in the name of Jesus Christ.
? That common social practice of re-telling that tale then became solidified as an annual event throughout the globe up to this day?including the consortium of men wearing the standard ?character costume,? complete with beard, hearty laugh, and candy canes.
The contemporary Santa Claus phenomenon is part of the larger Christmas phenomenon. It too has a ?main character? (can anybody guess who that is?). The entire Christian religion, complete with doctrine and tradition (i.e., Christmas, Santa Claus, and, of course, Jesus Christ himself), does ?exist,? at least in people?s minds, and is also formulated, promulgated, and solidified in the various sermons, paintings, statues, and icons.
Christianity must logically be the creative product of ?thought.? The question is, Whose thought?
?SAHS
FD: (edited to add name)
Yes, but the point was that some people do experience something they call mystical or god or something outside the normal things we experience with our other senses. That experience may or may not point to an outside source of the experience. But the fact that we can't measure such a possible source or its possible effects doesn't logically mean that it's just not there.
I would have edited my post for possibly sounding bolshier than I really meant to, but you copied it into your message so there's no point. Please excuse me anyway, I got a little irritated, but shouldn't have been rude.
Sirona:
Fantasy isn't unimportant, it is a very important part of us as humans. Look at artists - they couldn't paint with inspiration without using that part of themselves. We all need inspiration and imagination - fantasy - to be fully human, IMO.
Absolutely. I think Terry's point was that there is a very real and important difference between reality and fantasy. Reality doesn't go away when you stop believing in it. The inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality is insanity.
You deny yourself anything that is beyond testable science. What a mundane life that must be!
I certainly don't consider my life mundane. I really have difficulty understanding what you mean by "beyond testable science". I can't see how it's any different from playing make-believe. Would my life be more exciting if I believed in dragons? Perhaps, but the excitement would be based on an illusion. I have no aversion to looking at pictures of dragons, reading books or watching films about them, but I am unable and unwilling to pretend that they actually exist.
Now you may counter that dragons do exist by virtue of their being in my imagination, and in various works of art. Fine then, but they simply do not exist in the same sense as, say, elephants exist, nor do I understand why an intelligent adult would argue otherwise.
