String theory, Relativity, and angels (page 13)

funkyderek

Ah, English men, sigh. Maddening yet adorable, and vice versa.

English? Eng-lish? You really do want to annoy me, don't you?

Terry

A word about personal experience.

A person tends to believe themselves. They believe the testimony of their senses. After all, that is how we gain all our information and validate it; we use our senses.

Seeing is believing is a common assertion.

All well and good.

I believe my senses too up to the point where the testimony of one of them raises a red flag. If I see a "ghost" I need further information. If I have a "feeling" I need more information.

Law enforcement officers will tell you that "eyewitness testimony" is usually the least reliable.

So, should we deny our sense perceptions? No! We cannot learn anything without our senses.

We have to submit the input of our senses to a reasonabilty test and go from there.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

All of my previous comments address the aspect of out-of-the-ordinary circumstances. I don't go around with a magnifying glass and a test tube! I can be as gullible as anybody else. I have learned to hold out-of-the-ordinary claims and sensory experiences to a higher standard of proof than MERELY THE EXPERIENCE ITSELF.

James Randi, the magician and debunker, who has tested hundreds of paranormal claims from all over the world, testifies that the majority of people claiming "powers" or "abilities" are not trying to fool anybody. They themselves believe it is real. When those powers are put in a scientifically controlled enviornment an alternate and mundane reason always emerges in place of a paranormal one.

Randi allows for the possibility of something out of the normal. He just hasn't found it yet!

As far as predictions from dreams? All the most famous psychics are on record for the things they have predicted. A coin toss comes out better statistically than they do.

Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time by Michael Shermer

is a book I highly reccomend.

Terry

onacruse

A couple more thoughts:

frankie:

What if a person thru meditation was able to completely quiet his human part of consciousness with all it's concepts and ideas and just be aware and this allows the "one" who is listening to the thoughts (though he is not the thoughts themselves) to percieve something very subtle in this state of awareness and stillness of human mind,,,to percieve something about his higher dimensional self????

If such a "state of mind" could be achieved, insofar as higher-dimensional interaction is concerned, then it would, by analogy, stand to reason that we could more expeditiously obtain the same results within our own dimensional "reality."

So, as a demonstration of how that doesn't happen even between us 3-D humans: Some time ago, as Kate and I were involved in one of our almost innumerable patio conversations I embarked on a gedankenexperiment with her. I put my hand on her knee, looked glowingly into her eyes, and with the most sincere tone of voice said "Kate, I love you."

At that very moment, I was thinking, "Kate, I hate you."

So what happened? Based on all her human conditioning, and sense of psychological and social meaning, she took my gesture, and visual impressions, and verbal interpretations to mean exactly what I said! And she had no idea what I was actually thinking at the moment.

Now, if we, as 3-D humans attempting to communicate with other 3-D humans, are so incapable of really communicating "essence" with each other, even though beings on the same plane of existence, then on what basis can we speculate that a higher-dimension being would have any hope of doing better?

Consider the hypercube.

So, in answer to your question: No, I don't think that an "out-of-conscious experience" can meaningfully elucidate our lives.

Pole, you bring up an interesting point about deaf-mutes. I find epistemolgy fascinating, and will check out that Sapir-Whorf apo that you suggest.

Craig

SixofNine

*sigh* .....that does it:

as a demonstration of how that doesn't happen even between us 3-D humans: Some time ago, as Kate and I were involved in one of our almost innumerable patio conversations I embarked on a gedankenexperiment with her. I put my hand on her knee, looked glowingly into her eyes, and with the most sincere tone of voice said "Kate, I love you."
At that very moment, I was thinking, "Kate, I hate you."
So what happened? Based on all her human conditioning, and sense of psychological and social meaning, she took my gesture, and visual impressions, and verbal interpretations to mean exactly what I said! And she had no idea what I was actually thinking at the moment.

You've forced my hand, as it were. Get ready. Here it comes. I couldn't stop this if I tried..........

*pats Onacruse on his head*

Satanus

Onacruse

as a demonstration of how that doesn't happen even between us 3-D humans: Some time ago, as Kate and I were involved in one of our almost innumerable patio conversations I embarked on a gedankenexperiment with her. I put my hand on her knee, looked glowingly into her eyes, and with the most sincere tone of voice said "Kate, I love you."
At that very moment, I was thinking, "Kate, I hate you."
So what happened? Based on all her human conditioning, and sense of psychological and social meaning, she took my gesture, and visual impressions, and verbal interpretations to mean exactly what I said! And she had no idea what I was actually thinking at the moment.

Not sure if you believe in the subconscious. I'm quite sure that many things are noted by the subconscious, perhaps more than by the conscious mind. Anyways, it could be that, subconsciously she did note your 'i hate you thought'. But, her subconscious may also have noticed that it was only part of a mind experiment.

If you tried a simple meditation for a month or so, you could see into your subconscious a little bit. You could detatch from conscious thoughts. What franiespeaking may have had in mind, is transcending all thoughts, going to a state of total calm, yet being alert. I think this may be the road to the 'mind' of god, at least a more fundamental part.

S

Satanus

Geezus, this is wierd. I didn't copy ona's story from six's post. It kinda stuck in my head for a while, then i went and found it.

myauntfanny

FD

Ah, English men, sigh. Maddening yet adorable, and vice versa.

English? Eng-lish? You really do want to annoy me, don't you?

Good lord no, I don't want to annoy you! I spoke entirely in ignorance. I never noticed that you had Ireland in your profile, and it's hard to pick up an Irish accent in written text. Yet more apologies to you. I think should stay away from this thread, it seems all I get to do here is apologise to you.

funkyderek

Good lord no, I don't want to annoy you! I spoke entirely in ignorance. I never noticed that you had Ireland in your profile, and it's hard to pick up an Irish accent in written text.

'Tis true, to be shure, to be shure

Yet more apologies to you. I think should stay away from this thread, it seems all I get to do here is apologise to you.

No, don't do that. I was just kidding. I don't get annoyed easily, honest! Just stop apologising, OK?

Sirona

I think Derek has a lovely accent

Sirona

myauntfanny

FD

Just stop apologising, OK?

Yes, sorry, make note to self, must stop apologising to FD, it annoys him. Eeek! I can't stop. I'm stuck!

PS The green type was a nice touch.

String theory, Relativity, and angels

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