by Lady Lee 115 Replies latest social relationships
I have people to talk to here, but that don't exactly understand because they've never been in this situation before.
Yes, when I told people that I was breaking up with my girlfriend over religion (which ended up being only a temporary break-up), some of them were somewhat incredulous. They thought it was a rather trivial and silly excuse for a break-up. They just didn't understand the way things are with regard to this particular religion.
So I talked to my bf last night. I told him anything we do from here out has to be his decisions. I can't make them and he agreed with me and so far he said he hasn't done anything he hasn't wanted to do. For the last month he has not been to the Sun. meetings because it was when him and I had decided to start exploring religion and so on. He did make a comment saying he was probably going this Sun and I told him to watch out 'cause he'll get loved bomed.
I did make a suggestion to him that for awhile instead of going to the Tues night book study for him and I to start reading the bible together, but itself and nothing else He is going to think about this and let me know. Does anyone have an good ideas on where to start reading the bible where it would be most beneficial?
I also told him about this Post board and how I have been reading the stories about the XJWs and he does want to read this stuff. A while back I gave him info on the false prophecies the Watchtower claimed and he told me they were lies what I had found on the net. He feels there is only so much research I can do, then I have to go to a real person and ask. I keep telling him stuff but all he does is ask his dad and comes back with some kind of reason, how can I show him there is not a good enough reason for some of this stuff?
I am also getting very anxious for this Alpah Course on Sun. I hoping this is truly the answer I have been praying for. I am truly at my wits end for some reason this week has been really hard for me. I've cried literally everyday this week. One thing that makes this hard is I can't just pick up the phone and call him-he's a farmer so he literally works sun up to sun down, plus we have a long distance relationship, its about a 50min drive too. So all these things add up. We see eachother once a week on Sun when neither of us work so if you get my drift
Sorry I hope you guys don't mind my venting it makes me feel a little better. Thanks
I feel for you. But yes, that's kind of the extended story of my life too. Except you still have a way out.
I admire your straighforwardness with him. But apparently his mind is closed to simply accepting new info at face value. His mind is clearly devoted to the "provisions of the Faithful, Discreet Slave". So simply handing him new info you got from "lying apostates" probably won't do much good, as you are discovering. At a stage such as this, the strategy is to open his mind to get him to think. Ask simple questions that you can't quite resolve yourself, and present it to him that way. Approach him with a curious, questioning and concerned attitude. Here are some good questions from freeminds.org (which you may have seen already). Now, it's not necessary to cover all these questions. Just pick out some that strike a chord with you and genuinely ask him now and again and discuss it. It's a whole lot more convincing when you do it this way than when you seem to be memorizing questions from a script. Don't approach it with the attitude that you want to make him see things your way at all costs, but show him you are genuinely curious about the truth. Then you can point out specific things the WTS has said with regard to your questions. As he seems to be willing to check out some of what you've read on the internet, perhaps you can direct him to http://quotes.watchtower.ca where one can verify the WTS's own stated position (past & present) on key matters. That is if he'll look at it. If not, perhaps you can print out hard copies of actual WTS scanned publications available on the net. Here are more ideas of types questions to ask from a Biblical perspective: http://www.biblicalanswers.net/wit2others.html
Oh, one other thing: it's far better to pick out and concentrate on a couple of good issues and go over them in detail than to try and use the "shotgun approach" and try and show him everything at once.
The thing is getting him to see that perhaps there is a difference between seeking Jehovah, and having to become totally loyal to an organization with its whole set of policies laid out as the means of accessing Jehovah and earning salvation.
As for where to go to in the Bible, I think anywhere that emphasizes coming to Christ for salvation, like Romans, Galatians, John, 1 John, etc. would be good.
All this sounds pretty daunting, and to an extent, it is. But just take it all in, concentrate on a couple of key issues, and see how he responds. If he seems to be unwilling to reason, then I would sadly say that you ought to move on...
Thank you for that Info. I tried getting him with a question about paradise, but it didn't work. We ended up getting really upset with each other. I even called him a a$$hole, which I've never called him a name before. I felt pretty bad about it. We talked and he still wants to continue the Alpha Courses though.
I got a chance to talk to some of his friends last night. They all agree with me on the Religion thing and they are very worried about him also. It's so crazy, he talks out of both sides of his mouth. I really can't see him becoming a Jovoy, he totall does not act the part at all. If his dad were to find out what we did he would surely be disfellowedship before he even becomes one.
Love really does make you do crazy things though. So I guess I'm going to stick this out as long as possible for him and I. Thank you all for your help. I've read so much already and I'm still learning.
MM Something to be aware of is the cult personality. This is different than his real self - the one you have gotten to know. This cult self is who he is at the meetings or when you have triggered some response in him that seems opposite of what he has previously said but he seems to totally believe it. It is actually encouraged by the WTS and is called "Putting on the new personality".
You may find yourself talking to him and everything sounds ok and then something just changes in him and starts repeating JW phrases and comments to what you are talking about.
While he isn't trying to deliberately be difficult this is a typical reaction to the programming (yes it is real)
You can find some info on it here
Putting on the NEW personality http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/51400/1.ashx
NEW personality 2 - The armor
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/51532/1.ashxThe best of.... JanG - Recovery info
You might also want to look at The Best of... Cult information
and off this site
Try this from freeminds
http://www.freeminds.org/psych/openmind.htm but definitely go to the main page (above) and do some reading.
Thank you Lady Lee,
I think I have found a way to start reaching him. Tonight, after the Alpha course we started disscusing things on our way home. We began to get into the bible arguements again. Finally I told him I didn't want to argue the bible. I told him thats God's job not mine. So I began discussing stuff more from the heart. I told him he has so many people around him that love him and care for him and they are all worried. I told him God's calling out to him and it's up to him wether or not he listens. I went on from there just speaking to him from my heart instead of throwing things at him about the JW's or the bible. It seems to reach him a lot better. He'll listen instead of refuting. I think i gave him some food for thought tonite. Anyways thats just a little update.
You got it. Mosat people have found debating doctrine is a lost cause. it triggers the cult personality and all that comes out from them is what they have been taught.
But I think you have a much better chance of getting him to think if you go through his heart :) There is no programming to combat it. JWs are taught that faith is not an emotional experience.
BTW How did YOU enjoy the Alpha course and what was his reaction?
Speaking as someone who never was a JW but dated and married someone who was a JW: it can be an exercise in chaos. If you end up marrying one and having children be prepared to have them removed from you and subjected to parental alienation. Worse still read the enormous volumes of personal testimonials of child abuse within the JW organization. This is what your children will be exposed to and, from my own experiences, I can tell you if it does not scare you; it should. Reading my post in Corvin's thread will give you an idea (and only a very brief one) of what one could face http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/78388/3.ashx
LL-
The Alpah course is Awesome! I'm having a really good time. It is very informational, the videos are great and so are the people. I think it at least gives my bf some things to think about. He's still a little shy when it comes to talking in the groups but its getting better. I'm so glad jgnat suggested this course, even if he doesn't get anything out of it I am. So I just keep praying God's going to really strike him in the head sometime here and he'll wake up or something, but the emotional thing is what i'm going on now.
