As usual, Joker10 unleashes a devastating line of argumentation. Right on topic, too!
SNG
J/k, Joker...I like ya. I'm just giving you a hard time.
Does Belgium Have it Right About JWs?
by ezekiel3 106 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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shamus
I believe that all countries should adopt the US constitution as the foundation of law , it is a fine document that grants people civil rights and a free conscience in religious beliefs .
Well, if my country did that I'd move elsewhere. You see, where we come from, the United States and they're documents mean nothing to us, and I know this is just the internet, but I find your comments outrageous.
I know that you did not mean it the way you did. At least I sure hope so.
The United States should deal with it's current problems and resolve them. There are so many that they've started in they're own country and abroad that I think the president should be focusing all his manpower on those issues; not a sovergn nation that has the right to believe and not believe whatever the good'ol' boys in the United States think. It actually just disgusts me.
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ezekiel3
I find it interesting how political this thread has become. I think its time for a plain discussion about how US protects cults under the guise of "freedom of religion".
It is true that the roots of US have to do with religious freedom, especially when we consider that the whole Thankgiving holiday is based in religious pilgrims seeking refuge from persecution in England.
But times have changed. Now we have a whole host of savvy cults that stake their legitimacy on the noble principles of the US constitution. The Moonies believe US leniency is God's plan to allow them to grow so that their "theocracy" can take over. JWs believe that governments are put in place by God to keep social order until God's obliterates them for refusing to worship Him.
But both cults and hundreds more are well funded with powerful lobbyists/lawyers to maintain their human mind machine. Scientologists even bought the rights to the CAN (Cults Awareness Network) in a bazarre publicity takeover. Sun Myung Moon (leader of the Moonies or Unification Church) was a guest a Reagan's inauguration.
I respect the US constitution and it original motivations. The fact that cults hide under the US flag so that they can freely decieve our population should give us all a clue that there is a serious problem here in the US.
Jonestown and Waco were both lead by US cults. Both were mishandled by the US government. Why? I say because there is little cult awareness in this country. France, Belgium and many other European countries see things with a clearer eye.
The Watchtower corporations are a big-money company posing as a religion to world governments and its members. Its publishing is only a front - its real business is people, and they keep the dollars rolling be enslaving their members.
FACT: If JWs removed its mind control program, especially the threat of banishment by disfellowshipping, its organization would fall to pieces.
Heathen: I've read your profile and it is plain you have no idea what it is like on the inside of a mind control cult. I was that 13 year-old baptized as a JW who thought I made the best choice possible. I am still a JW because of the ramifications of my social slavery. You are a sucker if you believe that "freedom of religion" can be taken at face value. The moment you decieve or force someone to "believe", you have violated that tenent. Why should groups who do that seek protection under "freedom of religion"? What irony.
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shamus
I find it interesting how political this thread has become.
Then why did you quote a U.S. source that documents what the U.S. administration did? Why would this suprise you in the least? The whole thread is political. I find it amusing that some in the United States only listen to U.S. media. How many people live in the United States vs. the entire rest of the world? Our worlds do not revolve around you, believe me.
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WildHorses
Freedom of religion is a good thing. Just think about it. What if JW was the religion of our country and you had to be that or nothing. Thank your lucky stars that we have freedom of religion.
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czarofmischief
Don't take this as an insult to you as an American, because I do believe that the US is a great country in lots of ways, but to suggest that their consitution is the best foundation of law, as it stands seems to me to be a little close-minded. They still haven't had the courage or humility to admit that the gun law, (although it made sense and was a good idea 200+ YEARS ago), should be amended, for the good of the people in the US living now.... or should I say, had it been amended years ago, it would have been for the good of MANY innocent kids and others that are now dead.
Ah, these Euros are so quick to say, get the US out of our affairs. Of course, they look down their aquiline noses at our guns and our capital punishment.
The gun amendment was not wrong. It takes courage to keep it. I love it. Getting rid of it is neither easy nor desirable. To suggest that it is cowardice on the part of a democratic government that listens to the will of its people; then you are just being obtuse. Stay away from my guns. Now and forever. Stay away. Don't tell us what is good for us.
And if you don't like the US government NOW, the government of a United States unhindered by an armed, isolationist. populace would be an absolute nightmare for the world. Deal with that fact the next time you are crying over a dead crackhead. The American Empire is held back only by the guns of American militias. If we go... then you go. If you are fantasizing about defeating us in open combat, be aware that we are the only government to have ever used nuclear weapons on a civilian center. The American government is a mean bitch, and it gets away with everything that we don't notice.
If we didn't think America was the best country in the world, why would we live here? Of course we do, and to suggest that we are close-minded is to, again, be obtuse.
You, for instance, are completely wrong about gun control. Taking away guns is like taking away guardrails because people crash into them. For every accident where the guard rail is deadly, there are hundreds of incidents where it provides a visible reminder of limitations. Gun ownership, and the possibility of it, provides the same deterrence to crime. Americans don't fear prison. We fear getting our heads blown off for breaking into somebody's house. Which is a reason not to. The only one that matters, really.
Sorry, but you dared to pass judgement, an arrogant and stupidly shortsighted judgement, on a cultural item that is near and dear to my heart. I'm sick of foreigners coming over to take advantage of our great economic system and then panicking at how much FREEDOM everybody has and so they try to muzzle it with gun control, socialized medicine, and other sneaky underhanded attempts at undermining individual sovreignty. I try to welcome foreigners, but a lot of them are in this mindset that they are here to educate the barbarians. That's why I dislike Europe and its "diplomatic" solutions to problems.
Of course, Europeans can't seem to understand that Americans hate their own government with a passion - enough to do it violence if it gets out of line. Such a thought terrifies their stultified feudalized minds, so they try to make it more friendly, like an overbearingly psychotic ex showing up with baked goods and oil changes. "Why don't you love us? We want to give you health insurance, if only you will stay with us..." WE DON'T WANT YOU AROUND!
CZAR
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Pole
czar first wrote about shamus's post:
Sorry, but you dared to pass judgement, an arrogant and stupidly shortsighted judgement, on a cultural item that is near and dear to my heart.
a paragraph later czar wrote:
Of course, Europeans can't seem to understand that Americans hate their own government with a passion - enough to do it violence if it gets out of line. Such a thought terrifies their stultified feudalized minds, so they try to make it more friendly, like an overbearingly psychotic ex showing up with baked goods and oil changes.
Isn't czar passing "arrogant and stupidly shortsighted judgments" himself (to use his phrase)? Should he apologize to all the Europeans on this board now, for describing them in such a way? I think he should, although I don't really feel offended as many Americans would if I made a statement like this about their nation. I think it's a cultural difference.
Pole
BTW
If you didn't know Poland is the greatest country in the world, and all countries should adopt it's constitution, because it is only here that people can find genuine happiness.
Oh come on Americans, how can you seriously say similar bulls***t?
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ezekiel3
Of course, Europeans can't seem to understand that Americans hate their own government with a passion
Czar: You are a funny one. Just a reminder, when jacking off your shotgun remember to exclude the rest of us...
WE(?) DON'T WANT YOU AROUND!
A little reality check, the Euro is b-smacking the Dollar right now, and in 10 years the EU could surpass the US as a world power. Our elderly are sneaking into Canada to buy illegal prescription medication, and in retrospect France and Germany where right about Iraq. The US is a great country, but it isn't the only one.
Oops, did I just get political?
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outbutnotdown
Czar,
You already took a bit of a beating from others here, and rightfully so, IMO, so I'll go gently when I say that the red and white flag with the maple leaf on it, is a CANADIAN flag, not from some European country. The quote you were insulting was from Canada dude. From your coments, it does not surprise me that you are ignorant of that fact..... it goes along with your other ignorant comments about how the whole rest of the world is second class to you.
Personally, I could very easily say that I don't give a shit if you don't amend the gun law....the very simple one that freaks like Charlton Heston preach about, where you have the basic right to bear arms. I mean, why should it bother me? I live in Canada.... it's not going to be my kids who get killed by that same crack dealer you didn't give a shit about... insinuating that no INNOCENT people get killed by guns..... GEEZ!!!! But I do care about those INNOCENT people.... you know why?..... because there are too many whacked out people like yourself that may convince others that your points are rational.... we need to oppose people like you just as much as we need to oppose/prevent hurting by organizations like the WTBTS.
If you are no longer a JW, good for you, but I think you need to get some help with your perception of reality dude........ it doesn't sound very healthy to me.
By the way, I do not classify all Americans in the same category as Czar... I know people like him are the minority, thank heavens.
B.
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heathen
Thank God you euros don't have the right to vote in the US .I don't think any of you have read the US constitution . If you could show me one area where it demeans human nature you might have a point . The consitution was drawn up to limit the power of government and protect individual rights and freedoms from tyranny such as the brits brought on the early settlers . I can't stand the fact that the US backed euro to it's own detriment . Czar had a point that we are usually mad as hell about the government and it's constant persuit of undermining individual rights such as freedom of religion or the right to free speech . I do not think the US is the greatest nation in the world because I hold it accountable for the actions and consequences for it's failures such as 911 .For people who think gun control is a good idea , perhaps they should try living where there is gun control for awhile or where there is limited freedom of speech and religion , I'm sure cuba would let you stay there .
AFA the blood doctrine goes and the WTBTS the laws are protecting children and saving them . I still think that people are entitled to raise their children in whatever belief structure they edorse . I think Islam is far more dangerous but good luck trying to convince them otherwise . They train their children to do suicide bombings and treat women as second class all together .