Why does God need to be worshiped?

by Scully 132 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Narkissos

  Can you say anything about time without resorting to metaphors?

  No, indeed. You need to use spatial (as in a "long" or a "short" time) or movement (which imply both time and space, such as in "time goes by") metaphors.

  The problem with the signifier "God" is that it refers to an absolutely singular signifié about which any assertion must be barred as soon as it is uttered: God is a Father and he is not a father. He is a King and he is not a king. He is a Person and he is not a person. He exists and he does not exist. He is everything and he is nothing. The problem is well perceived in the negative or apophatic theology of the Middle-Ages as well as in the dialectical theology of the 20th century. At the end of the metaphysical road, there is no difference between theist and atheist: any kind of belief, or religion, has been lost along the way. As Nietzsche could have said, God eventually kills himself by the same critical weapon he used to kill the gods in the first place.

  (How many metaphors in the last paragraph? )
• 

  Midget-Sasquatch

  IMHO, most religious explanations are based on the same principles as the Bush and Kerry exchange above. Focus on metaphors, so that you forget about reality

  Can't argue with that. Many do use religion as a crutch. In fact I'm pretty much 99% in agreement with all of your points.

  I'm just trying to be more of an optimist lately, so I'm trying to look for the good things in religion :)
• 

  Leolaia

  Anyone remember that old Star Trek episode where Kirk and the Enterprise crew encounter an alien being who had been worshipped by humans as the god Apollo and again demanded to be worshipped, and Kirk said that humans have long outgrown that silliness, and basically told the emotionally immature god to just grow out of his need for attention.
• 

  StinkyPantz

  Widening the scope for a moment, does the Koran apply to those outwith the Muslim faith?

  edited to rephrase:

  Yes, Muslims apply their beliefs to everyone. If you are not following the Koran, then you won't get the blessings.
• 

  BrendaCloutier

  Whilst the points raised may, or may not, have merit. I'm at odds to point out that the manner in which this topic is being discussed may be construed as offensive.
  Whatever happened to have a modicum of respect for people's belief's (however wild you may view them)?

  LT, you're opinion is just as valid as Scully's question, and everyone's response, no matter how critical. ANY topic, or response, can be offensive to someone, in this case, you have taken exception to it. It is still a thread of opinions. And there is (usually, unless someone is cranky that particular post) respect here.

  Simply, if you don't like what's being said, it is probably hitting a soft spot of your own (one finger pointing produces three pointing back) possibly your own doubts being triggered? That's always scary.

  Don't get me wrong, I have great respect for you and everyone on this board. I also respect that this board is open to freedom of speech - something that JW's and many other organized religions, political parties, President Bush, governments, etc., oppose.

  Hugs, LT

  Bren
• 

  Midget-Sasquatch

  Anyone remember that old Star Trek episode where Kirk and the Enterprise crew encounter an alien being who had been worshipped by humans as the god Apollo and again demanded to be worshipped, and Kirk said that humans have long outgrown that silliness, and basically told the emotionally immature god to just grow out of his need for attention.

  Ah, the original Star Trek, a masterful tapestry of sci-fi camp, social/religious commentary......

  ....and miniskirted babes in go-go boots.

  Seriously though, I love the humanist attitude that came out in that episode with Apollo. There was also that episode where Kirk ends up destroying a device (fashioned like a stone idol) that was acting as a god over some planet of white haired aliens. At the episode's end they allude to the Garden of Eden and there's a light hearted comment by Kirk to Spock something along the lines of "I hope you're not calling me Satan." I'll stop now cause I'm off topic.
• 

  BrendaCloutier

  The "God" (He She It They) I have come to believe in has laws that MUST, and I mean MUST be obeyed! We are all familiar with many of them: The laws of gravity, the laws of magnetics, the laws of light and sound, the laws of the universe. THESE are god's true laws. The only way we can appear to "skirt" or "override" them is by using them to our advantage in the form of airplanes, space travel, satelite communciations, etc.

  I also believe that we, the human race, all creatures on the planet, and the planet itself along with the entire universe are of god. Thereby, they require our respect, admiration, compassion, care. I think this is the only form of worship "god" requires.

  Buddhism and it's lack of a godhead appeals to me as it sanctifies every living entity. Following is from an interesting site that offers interesting angles on the topic of this thread:

  BUDDHISM AND GODBuddhism is sometimes said to be an agnostic religion. Certainly there is no concept of God as the vindictive, judgemental, time-subservient warlord of the Old Testament, or the infantile boogieman of the Koran.
  
  http://www.geocities.com/scimah/God.htm

  I was off on a women vs men sanctity rant here, but I decided it wasn't appropriate on this thread... so I'll end here.

  Hugs on y'alls journey to enlightenment.

  Brenda
• 

  Pole

  Narkissos,

  The problem with the signifier "God" is that it refers to an absolutely singular signifié about which any assertion must be barred as soon as it is uttered: God is a Father and he is not a father. He is a King and he is not a king. He is a Person and he is not a person. He exists and he does not exist. He is everything and he is nothing. The problem is well perceived in the negative or apophatic theology of the Middle-Ages as well as in the dialectical theology of the 20th century. At the end of the metaphysical road, there is no difference between theist and atheist: any kind of belief, or religion, has been lost along the way. As Nietzsche could have said, God eventually kills himself by the same critical weapon he used to kill the gods in the first place.

  Yes. Most people have this conceptual faculty of meditating the ABSOLUTE (I wouldn't call it God - as I find this signifier too confusing IMO). The problem lies in what people do with this ability and how it influences their thinking and behaviours. Many myths, opinions and ideologies stem from this ability not all of them are useful or harmless.

  You're talking about advanced theology, I'm talking about folk knowledge and the actual impact of religious metaphors on millions of people who take them seriously, give them a real ontological status and apply the consequences of the abstract analogies in their lives believing they do service to God.

  Little Toe,

  Maybe re-reading my original post in a more neutral light might help you, because I wasn't personally offended (emphasis added), and hope that you aren't:

  Ok, mate. I re-read your original comment and you used a lot of hedge words in it indeed. I'm not offended in any way and I find your posts and this whole thread very enjoying.

  Pole
• 

  BrendaCloutier

  I find your posts and this whole thread very enjoying.

  Me to, LT and all! Good inspirational "debate", better than Bush/Kerry!

  -B
• 

  FMZ

  Pole:

  Again, I state that Farkel's metaphor seems incomplete, and my addition to it was only a small step (metaphorically speaking, of course ) toward the truth.

  I feel that the Bible has a somewhat... scratch that... a very skewed perpective on "God's" personality, especially the OT, where we find most of the vengeful God crap. My personal belief is that it was all just a clever ploy by people in power, who decided that it would be a good idea to use fear as a basis for worship. Oh, and would you look, this form of abuse of power is still in effect today!

  I heartily believe in God, but not in any kind of anthropomorphic personification of a deity. We, as humans, often try to dumb down what we cannot understand, and thus from this amazing thing, this amazing source of energy, we ended up with this horrible bunch of metaphors for how we perceive God, which is an imperfect, jealous old guy sat on a cloud and telling people he wants worship or he'll smote them from his throne.

  To get a little deeper... Where you ask if God is a powerful warrior, or a loving parent... In a way, He certainly is. Again, through connection to Him, and worship of Him (He being love itself), we can do amazing things through the power we find flowing throughout.

  Is love a powerful fighter? Nope. But, when a man loves a woman, he would fight tooth and nail for what he believes in... for his love. He would fight twice as hard than if he was fighting for nothing. Is love a parent? Again, no, but if a parent has the connection of love with their child (99.999% of the time) then it gives that parent the power to do much more for their child.

  Love is God IMHO, anyway. :)

  LT:

  To dig a little deeper, yes, our love often does need an object. Sometimes we must bring our view of God down a notch to fit it in a human body, so that we can see him in a familiar way. This seems to be an effective (though flawed) way of giving God worship in a directed manner.

  FMZ