farimind,
I think you need to read the Kitab'I'aqdas (Book of Certitude) which may give you a whole different paradigm on understanding biblical exegitics and hermeneutics.
carmel
God's purpose for Earth
by ClassAvenger 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Carmel
"All men have been created to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization"
carmel
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Narkissos
FairMind,
As you probably know I don't believe in "God" anymore.
This being said, I understand that there are many conflicting ideas and theologies in the Bible, and that any attempt to reconcile them into one consistent doctrine just results in creating yet another doctrine which doesn't exactly correspond to any single text. This is what the WT along with every church creed have done.
As regards the earth, I feel that a number of OT texts (especially of the priestly kind) would answer that God's purpose is fulfilled already. If you read Genesis 1 (not 2--3 which are another story), you get the picture of the actual world order, including mankind (not just Adam and Eve) as it is, as being the "very good" work of God. This work is perfect as it is, with death and pain and evil along with joy and beauty; God wanted it that way, we may not understand why, but had he wished it different it would be different. It is not to cease or change then. The later book of Qoheleth (Ecclesiastes) is an interesting commentary on how this world, with all its "vanity", is the "good" work of God, in the (also priestly) Sadducean view which rejects the apocalyptic ideas of a new "world to come", with resurrection and so forth.
But the opposite apocalyptic view is also present in the later books of the OT (Zechariah, Daniel), building on older prophetic texts (especially about the "Day of Yhwh") and it will be dominant in the N.T. (as in contemporary Jewish works). It implies that the world is not good as it is and expects a future change which generally includes the destruction of the actual world order, including the earth (as Leolaia pointed out).
The WT "synthesis" actually does justice to neither of these views. It is still something else.
Actually all "Bible believers" have to choose within the Bible what they (or their church) want to believe, and then read it into the rest of the Bible.
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FairMind
Narkissos
Thank you for your clear, logical reply. I understand what you are saying. We differ in that I do believe in God, but I agree with your assessment that there are many conflicting ideas and theologies in the Bible, and that any attempt to reconcile them into one consistent doctrine just results in creating yet another doctrine which doesn't exactly correspond to any single text. My assessment of belief or non-belief in God and what the Bible teaches is that in the end it is all speculation. This is an issue I have with the WT organization in that they treat their speculations as facts. I suppose other religions do the same.
FM
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Leolaia
Narkissos.....I just wanted to give you a big .... you've succinctly summed up the whole problem with biblical interpretation.... very well put! :)
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Leolaia
I just found the link to my posts on 2 Peter:
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Flash
Why did God create the Earth if (like I believe) we are going to end up in Heaven? What was his purpose in creating the Earth? How come we end up in heaven? If you can, please provide Bible verses
IMO, the key to bible reading is for us to use our discernment, Matthew 24:15b.
- Using our discernment we can deduce from various places in the Bible that the Earth was and will be the home for most all of humanity,Genesis 1:28, Isaiah 45:18, Psalms 37:9-11 and 29.
- Also, death became part of humanities existance ONLY AFTER Adam and Eve followed Satan in his rebellion, Genesis 3:3 and 17,18 and 19. We can conclude that if Adam and Eve didn't rebell they would still be walking the Earth today. The absence of any words from God to Adam and Eve concerning life after death indicates there is none. Death is the Finale, Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 10, Psalms 146:4. Hence the reason why Jesus resurrected people and that He Himself was resurrected, Daniel 12:13, Isaiah 25:8 and 26:19, John 11:38, 39, 43-45, Luke 24:1-8, Acts 10:38, 40, 41
- Revelation 5:9 and 10, 14: 1-4, 20:4 and 5 speaks about a specific number of individuals that have been "bought from the earth" to be with Jesus and rule with Him from heaven.
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Narkissos
- Using our discernment we can deduce from various places in the Bible that the Earth was and will be the home for most all of humanity,Genesis 1:28, Isaiah 45:18, Psalms 37:9-11 and 29.
As already said above those texts are about life as it actually is, not individual everlasting life. The blessing on the righteous / meek is collective.
- Also, death became part of humanities existance ONLY AFTER Adam and Eve followed Satan in his rebellion, Genesis 3:3 and 17,18 and 19. We can conclude that if Adam and Eve didn't rebell they would still be walking the Earth today. The absence of any words from God to Adam and Eve concerning life after death indicates there is none. Death is the Finale, Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 10, Psalms 146:4. Hence the reason why Jesus resurrected people and that He Himself was resurrected, Daniel 12:13, Isaiah 25:8 and 26:19, John 11:38, 39, 43-45, Luke 24:1-8, Acts 10:38, 40, 41
Genesis 2:4b--3:24 is not the continuation to 1:1--2:4a. It is an alternative story where everything is different, from the creation of vegetal, animal and human life down to the "knowledge and death" kit for mankind. Genesis 1:28 does not refer to "humanity before the fall", for there is no fall in the 1:1--2:4a story.
As has been pointed out in a number of old and recent threads, the doctrine of resurrection logically and historically implies the survival (not necessarily immortality) of the "soul" rather than it opposes to it.
- Revelation 5:9 and 10, 14: 1-4, 20:4 and 5 speaks about a specific number of individuals that have been "bought from the earth" to be with Jesus and rule with Him from heaven.
This of course has been addressed a number of times on this board, but:
- the "specific number" is obviously symbolic (as the 12,000 "tribe" figure it is made of)
- it is not taken from "among" the "faithful", all the "faithful" in the writer's perspective are the chosen ones (1:5f: "To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood, and made us to be a kingdom, priests serving his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever.")
- the whole Revelation scenario implies the passing away of the present earth and heaven (21:1; cf. 6:14).
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Pole
My invalueable opinion :
The concept of GOD.
The concept of PURPOSE.
They are the two cornerstones of most religious metaphysics. Once you have based your agenda on these two concepts and you start taking them seriously you'll see God and Purpose everywhere. Bible passages, everyday life events, other people's faces, world events.
God is everywhere. Purpose is everywhere. God has purpose. It all works. Life makes sense.
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Flash
...not individual everlasting life. The blessing on the righteous / meek is collective.
If that were the case where is there any hope for us individualy?...There is none, John 3:16 thankfully tells us differantly.
Genesis 2:4b--3:24 is not the continuation to 1:1--2:4a. It is an alternative story where everything is different, from the creation of vegetal, animal and human life down to the "knowledge and death" kit for mankind. Genesis 1:28 does not refer to "humanity before the fall", for there is no fall in the 1:1--2:4a story.
I don't know how to respond to this. How you or anyone can read Genesis 1:1 to 3:24 and not see a clear and logical progression???
...the doctrine of resurrection logically and historically implies the survival (not necessarily immortality) of the "soul" rather than it opposes to it.
Jesus was very clear about the future of the dead in John 5:25-29.
- the "specific number" is obviously symbolic (as the 12,000 "tribe" figure it is made of)
Even though Revelation is largely symbolic chapter 14 verses 1, 3 and 4 are clear when they refer to 'the Lamb' and those 'bought from the Earth.' Also, John 10:14-16 makes clear the fact there are two classes of sheep that Christ sheperds.
- the whole Revelation scenario implies the passing away of the present earth and heaven (21:1; cf. 6:14).
Implies? It is very clear about Post Armageddon events for mankind, Satan and his Demons and the Earth. The Witnesses do not have everything right, even so, they do have the main things right. ...You may have the last word on this. ~ Flash