by ClassAvenger 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Flash, Narkissos said:
This being said, I understand that there are many conflicting ideas and theologies in the Bible, and that any attempt to reconcile them into one consistent doctrine just results in creating yet another doctrine which doesn't exactly correspond to any single text.
This is the most profound statement I've read on this site. You cannot argue your way out of this by playing Bible hopscotch, quoting here, there and everywhere.
Checkmate to Narkissos.
Flash,
I'm not particularly interested in the last word, especially on this subject, but if you engage in a discussion you should expect to find some contradiction.
...not individual everlasting life. The blessing on the righteous / meek is collective.If that were the case where is there any hope for us individualy?...There is none, John 3:16 thankfully tells us differantly.
The topic discussed was individual everlasting life on earth. Does John 3:16 refer to this? Yes, the Johannine believers already had everlasting life in their earthly condition (5:24), but did they expect to remain eternally on earth? Cf. (for instance) 14:2f: "In my Father's house there are many dwelling places. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, so that where I am, there you may be also."
How you or anyone can read Genesis 1:1 to 3:24 and not see a clear and logical progression???
Do you really see a "clear and logical progression" from Genesis 1:1--2:4a, where the creation of vegetal, animal and human life in that order is achieved, to Genesis 2:4bff:
In the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet sprung up--for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no one to till the ground; but a stream would rise from the earth, and water the whole face of the ground-- then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being. And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed. Out of the ground the LORD God made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. A river flows out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it divides and becomes four branches. The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one that flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; and the gold of that land is good; bdellium and onyx stone are there. The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one that flows around the whole land of Cush. The name of the third river is Tigris, which flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates. The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to till it and keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die."
Then the LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper as his partner." So out of the ground the LORD God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every animal of the field; but for the man there was not found a helper as his partner....
??? How can you or anyone not see that this is another story, where God (or, rather, Yhwh) creates everything in a different order (namely: man, vegetation, animals, woman)?
I provisionally leave aside the rest of your comments, since I fail to understand how they are supposed to respond to mine. Just a short note on John 10:16, literally:
I have also other sheep that are not from this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.Notice the difference is where the sheep come from (from an almost universal agreement outside the WT: Jews and Gentiles), not where they go to.
Narkissos
Flash,I'm not particularly interested in the last word, especially on this subject, but if you engage in a discussion you should expect to find some contradiction.
Of course I do. I think you miss my point in yielding the last word to you. Which is, I've plainly stated my position, you've plainly stated yours, we don't agree, it's clear we're not going to agree. Going round and around in what I believe will be an endless debate is not something I care to do. IMO, its time to move on and let ClassAvenger and others read and decide for themslves what they will believe.
Have A Sparkling Day!
Flash
