by Terry 72 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
AK-Jeff,
Hey man! I didn't know you posted here too I'm sure enjoying our conversations over at the other site (J.W. Info Service). I, too, continue to love Jesus and the Bible. As far as being a LDS (I presume you mean Latter Day Saint), no more so than a JW., I assure you.
The Bible is supported in many cases by secular history, (such as the strong evidence for the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ by Pontius Pilate in the year ad. 32-33).
Could you cite examples of secular history supporting the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ by Pontius Pilate?
You say "many cases"; how many? Where? Who?
I'd be willing to view those with an open mind quite readily.
Thanks,
Terry
I have found that the Bibles teaching of a recent creation of basic kinds, followed by a global flood, is generally more in line with the hard facts of science than the alternative old earth/ evolutionary paradigm.
Depends on what books you confine yourself to reading, doesn't it?
If the books you read are all Apolgetics militating against evolution and employing the professional Creationist scientists-for-hire I'd have to say I don't blame you one bit.
But, otherwise, I'm completely shocked at your statement.
I really am.
Terry
Terry:
At risk of contradicting you:
But, otherwise, I'm completely shocked at your statement.
I really am.
No you're not.
Btw, I think I've just realised why I love you so much. It's likely because you remind me so much of my younger brother (the one who is a JW Elder, and hence now shuns me). He's got a bit of a jaded outlook and a b*st*rd streak, too - reminds me of Jack Dee
Der Gumby-meister said:Have you made the same effort investigating the history of how scripture was written down, compiled, redacted and selected as you did reinforcing your JW doctrines week after week at the Kingdom Hall?If you have; then you know it cannot be factual.
What is interesting Terry, is that thousands of honest men/women have examined both sides in earnest effort and STILL some believe. Could it be there is enough argumentation pro christian that people can say they STILL believe in all honesty? I'm not one to believe that ALL who have examined both sides are being dishonest with themselves if they still remain believers.
Gumby
I was speaking with a psychiatrist today on behalf of a family member in consultation and the topic turned to psychotropic drugs, etc.
This doctor has taken part in many double-blind experiments as the person who is supposed to monitor who gets what and the results.
His comments set me thinking. In effect, he disclosed to me how important to the progress of a patient is the state of mind that allows them to think they will be improved by the medicine EVEN if it turns out to be a placebo! I thought about translating that into slightly different circumstances:
If a person believes a lie, and part of that lie is that their life will be improved by the false belief, then they will interpret susequent circumstances with a view to "actual" improvement.
The doctor explained it to me as I made further inquiry.
The subtle part of "improving" is the patient's OWN VIEW of circumstances. In other words, if somebody insists they are sick---they will feel and act sick whether or not sickness per se is present (virus, bacterial infection, syndromes, etc.)
A reverse of this is the child in bed at night who believes in the Boogeyman. The child will be frightened at every noise and shadow movement. Contrariwise, the child who thinks the Boogeyman is bunk will not even take notice (in a sinister mode of thought) of those same noises and shadows.
The conclusion? The BELIEVING child actual hears and sees frightening things. The non-believing child does not. It is a kind of "truth" which is wholly confined to emotional states of mind.
Extrapolating all these thoughts into a final comment I'd say the following.
People who CHOOSE to believe things actually filter all subsequent perceptions through this belief system and it colors their world. People who believe in the Virgin Mary will "see" her image in toast, rusty barn walls and clouds with light behind them.
I think EVIDENCE, per se, does not penetrate the umbilical neediness of a beliver. A believer has an infantile addiction to the comfort of clutching invisible spiritual concepts close to their fetal breast and sucking the reassuring milk from its non-existant tit.
Terry
And does your Psychiatrist friend recommend tearing down all pseudo-belief-systems, walls and misconceptions, without any regard to current state of mental health?
Since words are so important to you, surely you know how effective and potentially damaging they can be, if not used appropriately?
BIG TEX: ... I'm a foolish, idiotic, brain-dead and strange iconolocast who allows his idealistic hopes and dreams to intrude on reality and overwhelm logic and reason?
Idealism is not foolish nor idiotic and you can't be brain-dead to have such hopes. Further, if you use the words "intrude on reality and overwhelm logic.." you aren't self-deceiving. I believe you are clearly choosing a mode of thought that works for you. I can get behind that with that clarity of choice involved.
It is when the life of a person is chained to a hidden set of manipulating factors that I bristle. You know what you are doing. Clearly.
I think personal choice is important once informed choice is possible.
You go girl! Umm, guy.
T.
I don't believe in the Bible as anything more than a tool for creating a common ground with people who claim to believe in its authenticity.
For example, I can reason with JWs like my parents on many different levels, however, if I can support my argument with the Bible, which they believe to be the highest authority, it lends more weight to my statements.
It's like my colleagues and I, when discussing certain issues with our manager, referring to the language in our contract as a means of strengthening an argument.
WHY DO YOU INSIST on clinging to the Bible as anything other than fiction?COUNTRY_WOMAN: because some parts are absolutely "true" ?
Could you share these parts with me, please?
Thanks
Have you made the same effort investigating the history of how scripture was written down, compiled, redacted and selected as you did reinforcing your JW doctrines week after week at the Kingdom Hall?
Nope. I didn't investigate one bit. I just quit going to church (meetings) and the brainwashing gradually washed away.
