by Terry 72 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Any hostility you discover in my passions here is me trying to slap sense into the former (me) reaching back through time (as it were) in futile blows.
Your intentions, then, are honorable in spite of the fact that they annoy the blue blazes out of 'believers'. At this point I'm picturing you either a paladin or Don Quixote, just not sure which.
By all means, carry on...I am really enjoying this topic. Great discussion, Great thread...
Jean
I don't think it is anything other than poor history, inaccurate many times, and psychology for the times, for which it was written.
Yes, much of it is fiction.
Terry:
I should also add, with Jeannie, that I'm not questioning your motives - just occasionally your methods
But then I'm of the ideology that people are generally more at ease having a framework and mental tools to work with (notwithstanding JamesThomas perspective), and certainly this seems to be the basis of a lot of psychotheraputic work - enhancing peoples' coping skills and toolsets.
I do feel that you were a little disingenuous in your reply to Golf, though:
Who needs to escape?
1.A caged animal.
2.A slave
3.A prisoner
4.A mental patient
Which ones are we?
Is that the complete list?
Don't many people read novels for a little escapism?
Your tirade is surely not against them, also, for this altogether human behaviour, is it?
Returning specifically to the bible, I should also make plain (as I have in several other threads) my own position. For the most part I see it as individuals' attempts to recount their experiences in life, physical and spiritual. The language and symbology is contemporary to their time and culture. It is, surely, filtered through their own subjective interpretations?
The results can sometimes seem ludicrous to our time, however I have little reason to suspect malice. I have little doubt that there are a few political agendas woven in, at the hands of redactors, but I don't think it's appropriate to dismiss all of the history and laws related there. Nor do I think it excessive to enjoy the stories and allegories contained therein, just as one would enjoy fine art, mythology or a novel with a moral.
Your stance appears to be a generalisation of it's contents and a total dismissal forthwith. I would suggest that it has great merit in understanding our own psyche, given that it has played a foundational role in our modern civilization.
Do we need to evolve further? For sure.
But we have a tendancy of doing that by standing on the shoulders of our predecessors. To do so it would be wise to examine their motivations and assumptions (as you suggest), but I would posit that doesn't necessitate a total rejection of all they held dear.
:but I would posit that doesn't necessitate a total rejection of all they held dear.
....not that there's anything wrong with that? :-D
Terry,
For me this was the most painful thing to me to realize. I had grown up all my life believing that our Creator communicated with mankind through the bible. I was throught this through the various Christian religions I joined till I became a JW. And the JW's seem to take it to a even more literal perspective in some ways.
After finding that there are many people who claim to be inspired by God and preaching the message of God including those in mental hospitals. Then to realize that the bible is the same type of thing. How can any bible believeing person proof that God spoke to man ever. All we have is the stories made up of metaphors, allegories and we believed it because we were told it is important to our everlasting salvation. Why in the world did the world look to the nation of Israel anyway, looking back it seems silly.
Now I'm free of believeing in it, and I feel at peace with all that means. Life is what we make it and there is no God up there directing our lives. I feel less depressed, and just happy to be alive and living now.
A dog and a man watch a beautiful sunset. The man will call it sublime; the dog's attention is not held to it at all. The sunset is available, but more than mere eyeballs are needed if we appreciate it as sublime. Beauty, goodness, justice, sweetness, are not material things, but they are real.
This is a most interesting observation that provokes a question in my mind:
"How do you know what the dog is thinking or feeling?"
A fair question?
Terry
"How do you know what the dog is thinking or feeling?"
Well, if the dog is sitting there licking its butt, I doubt it's interested in the sunset. Now a passing cat would usually hold it's interest for a bit...
J
Even though Terry seems to want to convey to all of us that his theory is absolute, (which seems to be a contradiction in itself), there is some validity to his comment, IMO.The other point that I might elaborate on, Terry, as Gumby, Valis and Brummie touched on is that people search for and hold onto things based on THEIR OWN perception of what they believe will make them satisfied.
I cannot bring myself to conceive of an absolute! Seems to me everything is subject to change if not simply entropy itself. I have a working hypothesis about certain things; but, I have to be willing to alter any aspect of it that clashes with fact.
As far as PERCEPTION is concerned; all knowledge stems from perception. What we do with what we perceive is largely a matter of skill, practice and clear-thinking.
I think what you may be alluding to is prejudice. A person who Pre-Judges what they perceive is altering it BEFORE analysis.
An ideaology, a superstition, a worldview can cause us to assume things not in evidence.
Every assumption has one or more premises. If we are not aware of our own presuppositions and prejudices we are not only failing to think clearly, we are crippling our rational mind.
I try to be careful of every word I own. I examine my definitions every day. I'm cleaning out my brain's lexicon. It is a kind of sweep for spyware. I constantly root out things which are ridiculous I've believed for years without evidence or fact. Astonishing how much we swallow without a filter.
Terry
LittleToe says:
I do feel that you were a little disingenuous in your reply to Golf, though:Who needs to escape?
1.A caged animal.
2.A slave
3.A prisoner
4.A mental patient
Which ones are we?Is that the complete list?
Don't many people read novels for a little escapism?
Your tirade is surely not against them, also, for this altogether human behaviour, is it?
I would have to point out a shift in your sleight of hand example.
Which of the following list of 5 is __actual__escape and which is a shift to metaphor?
1.A caged animal 2.A slave 3.A prisoner 4.A mental patient 5.Reading John Grisham and watching TV
You'll see (quickly) that my list is ACTUAL and your short list is mere metaphor. I don't begrudge a change of pace, a pause that refreshes or a vacation into mental diversion. However, it isn't ACTUAL escape; it is an attempt to stay where you are while recharging your mental batteries.
As far as my comments being disingenuous...."not straightforward or candid; giving a false appearance of frankness".............
What do you know about my comments that seem to escape my own notice????
Terry
Terry,
This is a damn good thread. I feel a lot of what you're saying, even though I'm not sure I agree with you on everything. But at this point, I'm really not sure what it is I agree or disagree with you and others on this thread. But this a damn good thread, that I'll have to later on go home and marinate on. It's just a freaking joy to have my cerebral fires stoked..........................
