intolerance

by teejay 78 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Billygoat

  Hey there Teejay. I heard a sermon recently at our church that was trying to distinguish the difference between "intolerance" and "exclusivity". That although "exclusive" in their beliefs (as in who has eternal life), true Christians should never be "intolerant". I had a hard time putting my arms around the concept, but I'm not sure I agree with my pastor on that subject completely. I DO believe that everyone should be "tolerant" in the sense that they are "lovingly hearing and accepting the viewpoint of another". But like someone else here said about bad blood. It's hard to overcome the bad blood in order to LISTEN and ACCEPT what the other person has to say. Doesn't mean you have to agree...just accept that that is their viewpoint and truly respect their stance. The one thing that tolerance and inclusiveness share is GRACE. It's not a concept that we were taught as JWs. I didn't learn it until I left the Borganization.

  What is grace to you? Maybe that will give a different spin on the subject.
• 

  teejay

  As far as I understand it, grace is the same as the JW's concept of underserved kindness (or mercy). Other than that, I don't know what grace is.
• 

  Billygoat

  Teejay,

  The Borg substituted "undeserved kindness" for "grace" when they rewrote their version of the bible. But it has a totally different meaning. "Undeserved kindness" is letting someone's wrong go...being kind to them even though they don't deserve it. Grace has a different intonation of LOVE...not just being kind...but being LOVING when someone doesn't deserve it and letting their sin slide. JWs aren't really that good at either. Their concept of love and kindness is so skewed, they wouldn't get it if it bit 'em on the butt.

  I experienced Grace when I left from the worldly people that chose to be my friends. I was socially stunted because of the little JW "bubble" I had lived in for all my life. I didn't understand the simple act of being kind to a stranger because it was the right thing to do. My "worldly" friends had to teach me that. They showed me grace whenever I screwed up or lashed out in my grief and anger. Their grace forced them beyond the confines of just being kind, into a deeper level. They tried to understand where I was coming from and why I behaved a certain way. They "graced" me with kindness AND love AND guidance of the right thing to do next time. Grace is an act of love, tenderness, kindness, without expectation of something in return. There's a big difference between that and "undeserved kindness"...which intonates an attitude of "I'm giving you something, but you'd better appreciate what I'm doing, because you don't deserve it, I'm keeping track and I might not do it again." God is not like that, even though JW's would like you to think so.

  When we show Grace in our lives, it goes a long ways when discussing "tolerance".

  Andi
• 

  frankiespeakin

  Billy,
  

  "Undeserved kindness" is letting someone's wrong go...being kind to them even though they don't deserve it.

  You see I have a hard time understanding the word "deserve" what dose one do to deserve or not deserve something?

  Is there some kind of law in the universe I don't know about?

  This word "deserve" is only a human term based on arbritrary reasonings and presumptions??Why do I say that?Because there is no proof that God has some law somewhere,, where he says what one has to do,, to be deserving,,. At least I've never found one,,therefore I say to you its all just human reasoning,, there is no such thing as "deserving" and "not deserving" outside of human prejudice,,it is all based on judging man which even some wise persons recognized durring the 1 and 2nd centuries.
• 

  teejay

  "Undeserved kindness" is letting someone's wrong go...being kind to them even though they don't deserve it. Grace has a different intonation of LOVE...not just being kind...but being LOVING when someone doesn't deserve it and letting their sin slide ? Billygoat

  With due respect, Andi, I think the JW's theology had it right?undeserved kindness is an accurate synonym for "grace"?it's just in the practice of the Christian provision that they, as a group, fail. Do Christians outside of the JW religion practice it consistently all the time? I'm fairly safe saying an emphatic NO. But I get your point.
  
  Although I don't claim to be a Christian or even to believe in god, your concept of "grace" is where I'm at now-a-days. We are all, for the lack of a better term, sinners. Who am I to think that my way is better than yours or anybody else's? For more than half my life--thirty years--I lived a life that I now fully reject. What delusion would now lead me to think that I have ANYTHING figured out? With my overwhelming ignorance constantly in mind, how could I ever feel comfortable instructing another on which way to go, which way is right or wrong?
• 

  Billygoat

  teejay,

  My concept of grace is one that was learned from my experiences. Same with the JW version of "undeserved kindness." Of course, we can only distinguish what is good for us and not others.

  Although I don't claim to be a Christian or even to believe in god, your concept of "grace" is where I'm at now-a-days. We are all, for the lack of a better term, sinners. Who am I to think that my way is better than yours or anybody else's?

  I'm glad that you're experiencing the grace I speak of. It is a freeing experience. I'm beginning to realize it's not dealt out only for those receiving, but I receive much by showing grace. One of those "better to give than receive" things. I really didn't mean to imply that MY way was better than yours...just that there is a truth to the saying "you get more with honey than vinegar". (Boy I'm full of cliches today, aren't I? ) You are right about not being judgemental...I feel the same way...we are all sinners. Who are we to judge?

  For more than half my life--thirty years--I lived a life that I now fully reject. What delusion would now lead me to think that I have ANYTHING figured out? With my overwhelming ignorance constantly in mind, how could I ever feel comfortable instructing another on which way to go, which way is right or wrong?

  I guess what I'm trying to say is that, in my experience, I don't have it all figured out either. I may not have the best advice of what TO do, but I can say what NOT to do. Perhaps instead of me taking an attitude of instructing, perhaps I could just share my own experiences of what worked and what didn't.

  I know when my mind and heart are full of pride, it breeds an unforgiving attitude towards others. Everyone around me gets on my nerves endlessly. I begin having feelings of judgement towards people over the most miniscule things. But when my heart and mind are humble, it breeds an attitude of grace. Nothing around me fazes me. It's easier to step into another's shoes and understand their behavior, albeit annoying or uncalled for or rude. I find myself rather strengthened by the humility than weakened by it. BUT...it is a battle I fight every day...the balance of having self-worth and not being prideful is a difficult thing. I can easily point to others and say they need to work on being more humble. But it's not my job. That too is something I work on everyday. I need to remember that scripture more often in Matthew 7:3 - "Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"
• 

  Jahna

  I was like most JW?s very critical of anything that was different then the way I was taught to believe. I fell hook line and sinker into the misinformation they taught. Once I left and felt I was doomed anyways, I began to look at other belief structures, my eyes were opened to diversity. Every faith, culture, people across the globe has good and bad points about themselves as a group and as a person. I have personally found it to be a wonderful thing and embrace diversity. I love to see how different and honestly how similar most things are across the globe and time. So yes, I am very much more tolerant of others and what they believe then I could ever possible be before. For not only have I learned tolerance, I have also learned to accept diversity and show it respect, even if I don?t? agree with it for myself. Such as being a JW any more. I also expect the same from those close in my life. For I hope that by accepting openly other choices, I hope they in turn accept mine. Jahna "Forever trusting in who we are, and nothing else matters" Metallica
• 

  frankiespeakin

  I think one of the things that causes "intolerance" is the need to be right. And when we feel our way is the right way and other peoples ways are wrong ways that's when we can start to become intolerant. If we feed it fear, or feelings of annoyance or some other pain. If it gets painful enough it causes intolerance in us to things outside us.
  

  If we feel there is no right way then we become tolerant we have less friction because we equally feel no way right. Is that good? I think it can relax the mind and make the mind see clearer,,, because the mind knowing there is no right way gives up trying to find right way and so it relaxes and with relaxation comes clearity,,and maybe even more fun perhaps. Like I said I don't know for sure but from what I have experienced I think this is true.
• 

  teejay

  I think one of the things that causes "intolerance" is the need to be right. And when we feel our way is the right way and other peoples ways are wrong ways... If we feel there is no right way then we become tolerant we have less friction... frankiespeakin

  There's a whale of truth in there. I've certainly been guilty of thinking I was totally in the right?becoming intolerant?only to find out that I was wrong. Having strong opinions but still being willing to bend is a trick I'm still trying to master.