Somebody- Please Help Me UNDERSTAND?

upside/down

I understand there is a ton of anger out there toward the WTS and Dub's, and rightly so..

What I don't understand is this notion that there is an evil conspiracy on the part of the WTS and Dubs as individuals to subjugate and control the unwary (or however you want to label us) for some evil sinister purpose. I know what they are doing and agree it's wrong but to what purpose- I mean you can look at televangelist and see what's up with them (follow the money). But what's up with the Dub's. I was one and I wasn't looking for financial security or to dominate another person, it was strictly for spiritual food. Most Dub's I knew were similar. It felt to me more like a "losers" club, the way for people who wouldn't amount to anything in the "world" to take a shortcut and be "somebody" (a pioneer, Ms, elder etc.) without any real effort(and conveniently God "approved" at the same time), just be PC and it will happen! That's why they hate education, it would upset the balance and the losers would be "nobody's".

Is it more of a mob (Borg) mentality, that just takes over and doesn't really have an mind of it's own but is more of a "collective" reasoning that permeates all thought and action? thus it appears the WTS behind closed doors is plotting all kinds of evil? I was pretty "dialed in" and I never saw anything more than the attitude of Osama BinLaden, he just KNOWS he's right and KNOWS god is with him.

One mans "religious zealot is another man's terrorist"

Discuss...

U/D

redskymedic

I wouldn't say that I believe they are behind closed doors plotting evil. In fact, I believe they think what they are doing is God's will. The only reason I have any anger or resentment at all toward the JW's now is because of the damage it inflicted to my family. If it wasn't for the practice of shunning, I wouldn't even feel the need to be on this board right now. Freedom of religion is just that, FREEDOM. If people want belong to an organization that operates by enforcing a group mentality driven by fear, then so be it, but leave my family in tact, please.

Red

AK - Jeff

u/d

IMHO, the WTS thinks, just like all other churches, that it has the 'truth'. They somehow think that all the deception, manipulation, and unjust treatment is justified under the dogmatic branches of the truth-tree they have exclusively laid claim to.

They have then done just as many dogmatic religions before them, and subjegated and oppressed in the 'name of the truth and righteousness'. They may take some sinister positions and do some sinister things to protect their assets at times - or as they percieve it - the flock. But, they are ligit in what they think they have, at least mostly so. It is hard for me to believe that no individuals at high rank have come to understand that fantasy -what with all the exposure they have had in the past 20 years. But, collectively - no, I think they are just the mislead, misleading the mislead!

Jeff

undercover

Freedom of religion is just that, FREEDOM. If people want belong to an organization that operates by enforcing a group mentality driven by fear, then so be it, but leave my family in tact, please.

Ever notice how the WTS is always fighting for religious freedom in different countries of the world? They even go to court, all the way to the Supreme Court of many lands to ensure that their members are allowed the freedom of religion as granted by whatever constituition, charter, etc follwowed by the respective countries.

The WTS fights for and demands their rights as spelled out by the governments but then denys those same rights to it's members when they want to leave. They don't physically imprison them so that they can't escape, but they use mental techniques to imprison them and keep them from leaving. Even if they can't convince someone any longer that they are the right religion, they'll hold families "hostage" so as to keep the membership of the one wishing to leave. Memberships cannot be canceled with serious repurcussions.

Narkissos

Hi U/D,

I think you analyse it pretty well: it is a consistent imaginary and social system, offering rewards (be someone, be saved, get a coherent vision of yourself in the world and history, answer about any question and have the truth on everything) and symmetric punishments (losing all the above). From the bottom to the top there is a measure of sincerity, even though there tends to be more cynicism toward the top. I guess the same things can be observed in many religions, clubs, political parties. To me the JWs are a caricatural sample of this kind of structure.

avishai

I mean you can look at televangelist and see what's up with them (follow the money).

Yup. The WTS, just the US portion made over a billion dollars last year, plus a whole BUNCH of prime real estate.

). But what's up with the Dub's. I was one and I wasn't looking for financial security or to dominate another person, it was strictly for spiritual food. Most Dub's I knew were similar. It felt to me more like a "losers" club, the way for people who wouldn't amount to anything in the "world" to take a shortcut and be "somebody" (a pioneer, Ms, elder etc.) without any real effort(and conveniently God "approved" at the same time), just be PC and it will happen

Very astute. It's usually the higher ups, i.e elders, CO's, DO's, GB that cause the problems because power attracts the corruptible.

That's why they hate education, it would upset the balance and the losers would be "nobody's".

Nope. They hate it because education usually shows people exactly how worng the dubs are.

I was pretty "dialed in" and I never saw anything more than the attitude of Osama BinLaden, he just KNOWS he's right and KNOWS god is with him

That's entirely the problem. This attitude has caused FAR more death, violence and destruction than any "corruption" or intentional evil.

The dubs kill more people every month than waco. More every year than Jonestown, with their draconian, constantly changing blood policy. but because it's not all at once, we don't see it as tragic.

candidlynuts

i think they are misled but also there is some blame to be cast that the powers that be KNOW somethings taught are wrong and yet refuse to change them in order to save face.

what_Truth?

Yes, i do beleie There is a conspiracy to keep control over the Jehovah's Witnesses for the evil and sinister purposes of their own wealth and power. Rutherford was clearly corrupt and when he hand picked his GB he looked for people who were similarly corrupt. Why else would they go through such great lengths to keep the org so exclusionary? Why else would they go through great lengths to get rid of anyone in their inner circle that couldn't go along with (though not necessarily beleive) their "new generation theory" in the 80's? Notice that they insisted on manditory shunning of all people who left for ideolical reasons (DA'd) just 6 years after the 1975 fiasco? Why have they gone through such great lengths to revise their own organizational history? The GB is very dangerous.

formerout

u/d,

It is hard for me to believe that no individuals at high rank have come to understand that fantasy -what with all the exposure they have had in the past 20 years. But, collectively - no, I think they are just the mislead, misleading the mislead!

I tend to lean towards this sort of reasoning. Not all people's egos are driven by money. A lot of dubs get off on the power that they wield within that organization. A lot of others get off on how great they are at being in subjection to others.

Their whole structure is designed to facilitate those needs. But really, what came first the chicken or the egg? A lot of people stay even though they believe it's hogwash just because it's easier to do so.

The problem that I have with the org. is that this structure is so strongly enforced. Combine that with the fact that support is given to the members unquestionably and the result is what has been exposed more and more recently: NOT ONLY DO THEY PROTECT DYSFUNCTIONAL PEOPLE BUT THEY BREED THEM AS WELL.

Brad

Narkissos

What_Truth?,

Rutherford had no Governing Body: it was a one man rule.

As to the (difficult) creation of a GB and the complex psychology of its members (including the president), Ray Franz's Crisis of Conscience offers a unique insight. Both misleading and mislead (by the very structure) is an excellent résumé imho.

(Edited because I got the posters mixed up...)

Somebody- Please Help Me UNDERSTAND?

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