The benefit of the fallacy of logical conclusions on their end is that it makes it so easy for them to accept one belief amidst a flurry of hypocrisy. Sure JW's don't celebrate holidays because they're pagan...but then again...its A-OK to observe all the pagan customs in wedding ceremonies because nobody ever saw a ghost fly out of a wedding cake or a demon speak out of a wedding ring....
Witness logic and reason applied to bread, fallacy of logical conclusions
by garybuss 37 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
garybuss
The example of the dog is beautiful. Thanks!
The fallacy of the pagan party is a great example. The Witness people don't have traditional parties due to pagan origins but they are not in the least true to their own principle. By the pagan reasoning the Witness people could not bathe nude. Nude bathing is a pagan practice and the Roman's were prolific in their construction and use of bath houses.
The assumption that runs it all is the assumption that there is a god. To prove that He had an "earthly corporation" one first has the duty to prove that "He" really exists and since reason and logic is the topic, those can't be used to prove "He" exists.
All I can say is that I was ignorant and lacking in education. When I became educated and informed on the ways of groups as well as people willing to manipulate and control people for selfish reasons, I became a much less easy mark for their tactics.
I trusted my parents and they told me hot was hot and falls can hurt and it was all true. But when they taught me their religious superstitions as fact, I accepted it all without even thinking once about it. I took that religious superstition to the Witness meetings and everything seemed to fit. All seemed well. -
wednesday
Gary, I'm enjoying this discussion very much. It is reallly making me think .One thing I would like u to discuss more is
The assumption that runs it all is the assumption that there is a god. To prove that He had an "earthly corporation" one first has the duty to prove that "He" really exists and since reason and logic is the topic, those can't be used to prove "He" exists.
I have always agreed that "things" need a creator. It does seem logical to me tht the earth had a creator.
could u discuss this.
The bread anaology was great
-
garybuss
Wednesday, You wrote:
It does seem logical to me that the earth had a creator.
It seems logical to me too, but it does not seem rational. Logical, because it can be concluded by use of logic, like eating bread causes crime. The difference is that "rational" to me is real and can be proved in some objective way like the cause of disease can be shown to be caused by a virus. I see no problem believing there is a God or some benevolent creator (cause). I do see a problem when some book printing business claims exclusive access to that cause and directs my wife to refuse medical treatment to her early death.
Skeptical belief in theism is probably not going to hurt me too bad. Blind (irrational) belief can do great harm because it lays me defenceless to charlatans and the next guru. I don't say there is no god. I say show me and then I will accept the obvious.
Logic and reason are the tools of the skeptic. When a Watchtower magazine says it's reasonable or logical, my BS detectors go on and flash red. That means they are grasping and lacking proof. Plain obvious truth does not require hundreds of volumes of printed material to frame and explain but theory and superstition does.
When a company is in the printing and convention business it prints literature and sponsors conventions. -
wednesday
yes, Gary, I "awoke" from the JW madness when i realized that JWS were just another religion claiming to have special vision from God. When I was able to see that, they lost their power over me.
I tend to believe their is a creator, however wonder if He has not lost interest in us.
-
heathen
garybus -- I don't think I've heard you mention your wife before . So you are saying your wife died from the WTBTS ban on blood? What really kills me is the way they exspect people to believe they are anointed when their history shows a complete lack of insight on anything . How do we know they are anointed , why obviously because they said so .
-
ezekiel3
1. No sale of bread to minors.
2. A nationwide "Just Say No To Toast" campaign, complete celebrity
TV spots and bumper stickers.
3. A 300 percent federal tax on all bread to pay for all the societal
ills we might associate with bread.
4. No animal or human images, nor any primary colors (which may
appeal to children) may be used to promote bread usage.
5. The establishment of "Bread-free" zones around schools.The previous "commands" would simply allow JWs to get sued up the a$$. Instead, the "faithful and discreet slave" would lovingly admonish us in the following way:
1. Would a faithful follower of Jehovah provide or even sell bread to a minor? When commissioning his disciples, Jesus"gave them orders to carry nothing for the trip except a staff alone, no bread , no food pouch ." (Mark 6:8)
2. As part of our January service campaign, let us make an extra effort to provide everyone in our territory with the new tract "Christains View of Toast." What a timely provision from Jehovah's spiritual table!
3. As the earthly organization moves forward God's heavenly chariot, the Governing Body has incurred a substatial cost for the new buildings and presses that produce our no-bread literature. We thank you for committing in your hearts to increase your contributions for this exciting new project. Indeed " may you also abound in this kind giving." (2 Corinthians 8:7) On average a publisher may want to increase their donations 300%.
4. A spritually mature person would shun any bread packaging with human or animal images. Indeed, it is an issue of divine soveriegnty, for "y ou must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath." (Exodus 20:4).
5. Some Christain youth have been observed frequenting "bread-free zones" at schools and other worldly hangouts. Do we as parents inculcate to our children that "we are no part of the world?" Children have Jesus for their example when, while being tempted by Satan, he said, " Man must live, not on bread alone." (Matthew 4:4) We too must resist the machinations of Satan!
From the gluton-free class.
-
heathen
Yes and jesus also said , " beware the the leaven of the pharisees." This means that all bread is clearly evil especially if it has leaven . Breads like wonder bread and Iron kids are boasting grandios claims that only the devil would dare . If wonder bread was so wonderful or wonderous would it have to use the word wonder , a complete lack of humility , and what of iron kids ? Could you imagine if your kids turned to iron ? why it would be horrible but you could still use them for lawn statues .
-
garybuss
Yes Heathen, My first wife had leukemia and could not receive proper chemo treatment because that required blood treatment as a support because the chemo lowered the hemoglobin too much. She also refused a bone marrow transplant due to Watch Tower Publishing Corporation issued guidelines relating to cannibalism. She suffocated to death due to low hemoglobin. She literally gasped for breath and she died. The story is on my page on www.freeminds.org at the link below.
http://www.freeminds.org/buss/buss.htm
-
heathen
That's a sad story alright . I do think it's disgusting how religion will try to dictate what health care is appropriate and of course they changed the doctrine , sounds like you may have a lawsuit . They come off sounding like the dr. Kavorkian religion only dr. Kovorkian only helped people that didn't want to live and were terminally ill which I really can't see anything wrong with myself . I also read the shunning article in which you made some very good points on the hypocrisy of it all . They will tolerate smoking and various other things but only if you aren't a baptized publisher . Smoking is a bad habit but I just can't see a father cutting their daughter off over such a small thing . Meanwhile the childmolesters can remain in good standing . People like you who share their exsperiences are really helping me and others get a better idea of what to exspect if one of those magazine peddlers come to the door . I tell ya I've known plenty of the j-dubs but never was a member and most aren't worth the time of day . I actually knew one guy that was into animal sacrifices even , is that not nuts or what?