Nark, i do see your point though with regards promises Jehovah made in the past.They seem for the most part to be fulfilled many generations down.However the one promise to all the faithful seems to be the same,when it will be fulfilled who knows?
Are we to be Angels or merely mankind?What did Jesus mean?
by ko38 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Narkissos
A promise, yes. Not of individual everlasting life though.
See how the NRSV renders v. 37f:
Mark the blameless, and behold the upright,
Here there could be a debate on translation, as the NWT uses "future" instead of "posterity". But in the ancient mind it is really equivalent: one's future is in one's children.
for there is posterity for the peaceable.
But transgressors shall be altogether destroyed;
the posterity of the wicked shall be cut off. -
ko38
Well, if thats the case then we have a whole new understanding of scripture.For if we insert our offsprings continual existance instead of singular it changes the translation from singular to plural .From literal to figurative.
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Kenneson
If Psalm 37:11 means what the Watchtower says it means than there never has been a meek person who has lived on this earth yet. Not the psalmist; not any Old Testament character. Not even Jesus or any New Testament personages. Not anyone after them. Not the founder of the Watchtower Society, Charles Taze Russell nor any of its presidents, nor any other Jehovah's Witness or anyone else who has died!
To those Jehovah's Witnesses who remain, believing that they will live forever, I can only add: "So far, so good."
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ko38
What do you mean here? it says The meek ones themselveswill possess the earth And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.Explain please?
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Kenneson
Ko38,
I think the whole chapter of Psalm 37 is speaking about retribution. The psalmist did not believe he would live forever on earth. He believed that the wicked would be punished (cut off from the Promised Land) and the just would be rewarded (possess the Promised Land) in this life. If he is saying what JWs say, why is he not here today? Was he not meek? Did the passage not apply to him and subsequent Old Testament characters?
See especially verses 25 and 26.
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Room 215
I believe that we must also consider the conditionalist argument that postulates that since death is introduced in scripture as a penalty for disobedience and that Adam and Eve could have averted death simply by refraining from eating of the tree, that death for them was not inevitable but conditional upon their obedience. Paul's reference to death as an enemy rather than the agency for transferral from one form of life to another also seems consonant with this view.
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ko38
So in all reality then, the bible should or may apply to only those alive at that time.I know that a lot of people want it to apply to every generation(theirs).
What if any of the bible do you guys feel applies to us now?Or what can be learned that is useful?
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Navigator
First of all I have to say that the bible(IMO) is not entirely reliable or consistent when it comes to describing an "after-life". Nor do I accept the this earth was created by God. If it had been, then it would have been created perfect and perfect it is not. We wouldn't have tornados, floods, hurricanes, meteor hits, etc. if God had been the designer. The Gospel of John says that the earth was created by the Logos (The Word) or Son of God (and apparently in a separated state for the purpose of experiencing separation for God). The story of the Prodigal Son is illustrative of this concept. Our Hindu breathren speak of our existence on this earth as "Maya" or illusion and they may well have it right. I believe Jesus came to remind us that "separtion is merely a dream and death itself is an illusion. Since we are made of "God stuff" how can God lose any part of Himself? Eventually, like the Prodigal Son, we will come to our senses and be willing to return home. No one is going to be lost. However, like the Prodigal, our remembrance of our wasted opportunities to express God's love may be painful. Life on this earth is no more desirable than that which the Prodigal experienced when the land which he journeyed to fell on hard times. Our home is Heaven and nowhere else.
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ko38
Interesting take Navigator.I agree that life on earth could be a kind of purgatory,who knows.We are lost souls no doubt.I wonder though if there is something else?If there is will we remember our time here on earth?
Everyone has their own belief and i respect that,but i dont respect the borg for praying on the ones that want so much to have their message be true, yet not to materialise