According to A Course In Miracles the universe exists only as a place to experience separation from God. How can you do your "own thing" without a place to do it? When we come to our senses, the universe will disappear. There is a very interesting book called "The Disappearence of the Universe" by Gary Renard which makes that point very well.
Are we to be Angels or merely mankind?What did Jesus mean?
by ko38 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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peacefulpete
That was a nobel effort Narkissos. For the person detemined to believe the context has little bearing on interpretation. Ps 37 is a perfect example. The passage simple read is a conviction that someday the God of the "righteous" (sect of Jews) will destroy the "wicked" and give them a land that they will be allowed to keep. It reflects a comon yearning for security and prosperity. Funny how 2300 years later it is being used by people with similar desire but in an entirely new context.
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ko38
Is it possible that we are the generation that these will occur?
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peacefulpete
No. The ancient writer was expressing religious conviction that all the injustice he saw his fellow Yahwists enduring would "soon" (vs 2) and in only "a little while" (vs 10) be reversed. The writer was obviously torn between expressing his concern about the killing of Yahwists he was seeing and his conviction that yahwah would never "forsake" (vs 25) a worshiper.
It was the same for us a JWs who repeated that Jeh. would never forsake us and would provide our daily needs, while reading in the yearbook about JWs in Africa starving and eating boiled bark or being killed in genocides alongside the "worldly".
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Narkissos
Is it possible that we are the generation that these will occur?
If we are the dozens of previous generations of readers who believed just the same thing have been fooled.
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Rydar
Hi I am a new comer to these boards, but I am a avid bible student. I believe in God and all his promises. I use to attend Kingdom Hall meetings, but I just stop going to them one day. I never got baptized with them and became a full member. It was for about a year or so that I was a Jehovah Witness. Anyway I have studied the Bible and read the entire book from front to back. The truth is that Jehovah Witness are correct in what they say about Hell, The Trinity and the Soul. Hell is not a place of torment, the soul is not immortal, and Jesus is not God Himself. However, the one thing that the Jehovah Witnesse's did get wrong was the identity of the Great Crowd and 144,000. The JW think that the 144,000 talked about in the book of revalations is a literal number and that the Great Crowd represents followers of Christ with an earthly hope. That is just a plain misinterpretation of the scriptures. The Great Crowd and the 144,000 are actually one and the same. Trust me I know this because I have read the book revelations more times than I can possibly remember and I have let the Bible interpret itself. All who do God's will and put faith in his son Jesus Christ will be rewarded with a heavenly life as an angel ruling over the earth for a thousand years with with Jesus while being a priest of God. All those who died before Jesus time and who died doing bad things while alive on earth will get a earthly resurrection at most.
Want proof that those of the Great Crowd recieve life in heaven and not on earth when they die? I will prove it to you. But first, let's examine the 144,000 mentioned in the book of Revelations. It first appearance is in revelations chapter 7 verse 4.
The WTBTS teach that the 144,000 is a literal number, but that can't be true since in every apperance in the Book Revelations, the number is surrounded by symbolical text. If you pay attention you will notice that 2 of the 12 tribes of Israel mentioned actually don't exist! Thus, the make-up of the tribe is symbolic.
Rev 7:4-8
Secondly, The the 144,000 is discribed as standing on Mount Zion (Jerusalem) with the Lamb (Jesus) having the name of God and Jesus written on their foreheads which is also clearly symbolic.
Rev 14:1
In its last appearance the 144,000 and the 12 tribes of Israel is described as the building blocks as the holy city of New Jerusalem. So the there is no reason why the 144,000 should be interpretated as literal number because in all cases it is surrounded symbolical context.
Rev 21:10-21
So if the 144,000 is symbolic, what does it represent? That number symbolizes the great crowd while they are still here on earth doing God's will. Recall that Paul said that "He who is a jew on the outside is not necessarily a jew, but he that is a jew on the inside is a jew." Thus, those doing God's will after the resurrection Christ were considered now to be part and make up the body of a spiritual Israel so to speak. So the 144,000 thousand that make up the 12 tribes of Spiritual Israel are actually persons from all nationalities and racial backgrounds.
Rev 7:9
The Great Crowd and 144,000 are one and the same. Chaperter 19 verse 1 directly points to the Great Crowd as being a heavenly group. Pay close attention to verse 6 of chapter 19 and compare that with chapter 14 verse 2. Those 2 verses directly link the identity of the 144,000 as actually being the great crowd.
There is a lot more scriptures identifying the great crowd as a heavenly group. Rev 5:9-10 and Rev 7:15
Notice that Revelations 7:15 says of the group crowds as rendering "sacred service" day and night inside his temple. This verse can only suggest that the great crowd recieves the reward of being angelic priest of Jehovah as Jesus promised.
Rev 5:10
A careful study of the bible will reveal thatthere is nothing in it that really points to followers of Christ living forever here on earth. Those who do God's will post death of Christ have a special reward and privledge. They are part of the first resurrection which recieves life in Heaven!
Rev 20:4-6
Everyone else who's name is in the scroll of life will be resurrected here on earth and recieve eternal life provided that they stop practincing sin.
Rev 20:11-15 and rev 21:1-4
You and everyone else have a shot at becoming annointed christians and the reward is great. Don't allow anyone to rob you out of that. If anyone REALLY wants to get to know God. Study the Bible and read it for yourself. Seek out God and open your heart to Jesus;pray for understanding and then you will see the "TRUTH".
BTW, just because anyone does not associate with Jehovah Witness's any more does not mean they should also turn their back on Jehovah. God cannot be held responsible for those who claim to act in his name and then burn you with treachery. His son Jesus warned all of you that people would come in his name and mislead many. The problem with most people is that they don't read the Bible on their own and study it with an open mind. Learn to put faith first in what the Bible actually teaches and then judge rather or not if what any professed servant of God says is true. God is real and his promises are real. Get to know him by reading the Bible. Don't let people who doesn't really read the Bible tell you what type person God is or what kind of punishments he delivers to the wicked. I have heard some wrongly accuse Jehovah of being a barberic War God in the Old Testament. This is simply not true. When King Solomon listed the 7 things God hate most in the book of proverbs, one them was a person who was in a rush to shed innocent blood. Also, one of the 10 commandments said "thou shall not kill." The people God did slaughter or ordered to be slain were wicked and cruel.
All that God ask is that we love him, worship only him, treat everyone with respect, take care the needs of our family, look out for orpfens, poor people, and widows, be faithful to your marriage partner, earn all your possesions thru legal and honest means, and tell people the truth. Is any of this so bad?
God is good and only wants whats best for us. Why should God give eternal life to anyone who insist on causing problems and making life miserable for others? I don't know about everyone else, but a world without murderers, thieves, liars, fornicaters, slanders, betrayers, riduculers, and lovers of violence sounds good to me! -
Narkissos
Welcome Rydar,
And congrats for discerning what is plain wrong with the WT's interpretation of Revelation.
Not so sure about what you deem right in the JW's teaching. But that's another topic (or a number of). If you browse the site you will find interesting discussions on the immortal soul etc.