Is there any other religion teaching the "144k"
How does the society explain 5 more partakers at the Memorial?
by lv4fer 56 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
Neo
Somewhere I read that for a "Anointed One" to be replaced, the original Anointed One had to die apostate. Can anyone help me with this.
If no one can tell if the above is correct, can anyone say that it is incorrect?That's not official WT doctrine. They say that a replacement is only necessary when someone "anointed" leaves the faith ("falls away").
*** w99 2/1 19 Our Treasure in Earthen Vessels ***
?No More Additions!?
At a Gilead graduation in 1970, Frederick Franz, then vice-president of the Watch Tower Society, told the students of the possibility that they, who were all of the other sheep with earthly hopes, might baptize someone who might claim to be of the anointed remnant. Could this happen? Well, he explained that John the Baptist was of the other sheep, and he baptized Jesus and some of the apostles. Then he went on to ask whether there still was a call for gathering in more of the remnant. ?No, no more additions!? he said. ?That call ended way back there in 1931-35! There are no more additions. Who, then, are the few newly associated ones who are partaking of the Memorial emblems? If they are of the remnant, they are replacements! They are, not additions to the ranks of the anointed, but replacements for those who may have fallen away.?Going by that rule, we can say that most members of the precious "anointed class" actually end up being unfaithful and being "replaced", since the call ended in 1935 and there are still thousands partaking (when at least 75% should have had already died, taking as basis a normal mortality rate).
Neo
-
Triple A
Neo, So for every Anointed that was baptist after 1935 (or at least from 1970) an Anointed must have fallen away. Thanks for the reply. Triple A
Just another question, If an Anointed One falls away and is replaced. What happens if they return to the WTS? Do they come as part of the Great Crowd or an Anointed One?
-
Neo
If an Anointed One falls away and is replaced. What happens if they return to the WTS? Do they come as part of the Great Crowd or an Anointed One?
The WT never goes into that. They avoid the "anointed/partakers" issue as much as possible, and so they don't feel a need to give a straight answer on that question, keeping the entire subject "cloudy" in the Witnesses' minds.
So for every Anointed that was baptist after 1935 (or at least from 1970) an Anointed must have fallen away.
The 1970 date is not important in the context, it's just the year when Franz delivered the talk that dealt with the matter of "replacements".
-
confusedjw
So for every Anointed that was baptist after 1935 (or at least from 1970) an Anointed must have fallen away.
Right. Must have fallen away and died while still out of the org.
-
heathen
I really don't see how an anointed one can sit through all those bogus WT articles . It would seem that many were removed for not adhering to dogma spewed by a publishing corporation that would clearly go against their very conscience . Instead of standing up for what is right many no doubt succum to peer pressure and the insanity of the org. I bet now Freddy Franz has a different opinion than what has been posted . The jehovah witnesses are one very screwed up cult , they can't even determine when they are publishing dogma , according to them they always had the truth , wow, you really have to be an idiot to go along with that one . I really think that those with the power and comfort that goes along with being in the GB will do anything to maintain that power and prestige they seem to enjoy, even to the point of blaspheme, in that instance they are the evil slave .
-
Triple A
Right. Must have fallen away and died while still out of the org.
confusedjw, is this a written or just a verbally spread belief. If it is written, do you know where it was published? Thanks, Art
-
unclebruce
g'day english,
yes, bruce bainbridge was quite a character and I regret hurting him with my lobotomy remark. BB wasn't the only 'remnant' posting on H20. It suddenly dawnewd on me one day and I posted asking those of the 'anointed class' to please stand up - shock horror - it was something like half the board! - freaky!
I knew nutters like the forum director and bibleman believed themselves "gods chosen" but even people who appeared normal came out of the woodwork. Big apostate people such as Farkel & Amazing (originally Amazing Annointed) claimed to be little flockers.
only joking about Farkel - what God would want him hanging arround?
cheers, unclebruce
-
iiz2cool
The answer is simple. Heaven is rife with sin and many annointed are falling away after their heavenly resurrection.
Immoral bastards!!! -
blondie
If an Anointed One falls away and is replaced. What happens if they return to the WTS? Do they come as part of the Great Crowd or an Anointed One?
Think about it, the man in 2 Corinithians who was DF'd and reinstated was of the anointed. When he was allowed back in, there was no great crowd, so he reverted back to his anointed standing, per the WTS.
***
w76 3/1 pp. 158-160 Questions from Readers? Can an anointed Christian who is disfellowshiped later be reinstated and still have the heavenly hope?
Yes, that is possible. Of course, in each case Jehovah God is the one to determine whether he will extend forgiveness.
The fact that this is possible is borne out by what we read in the apostle Paul?s letters to the Corinthian congregation. He wrote to Christians who had been anointed by holy spirit and given the hope of heavenly life. Paul addressed them as "you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones."?1 Cor. 1:2; 15:49.
One of these anointed Christians began to practice fornication. When he evidently did not repent and stop his immorality, Paul directed the congregation to disfellowship him. (1 Cor. 5:1-5, 9-13) However, it seems that this disfellowshiped person thereafter did sincerely repent. He is understood to be the person whom Paul was referring to in his second letter when he advised the Corinthians to forgive and accept back the former sinner.?2 Cor. 2:6-11; 7:8-13.
When that man was reinstated into the congregation, what was his hope? Had he lost the heavenly calling, and had his hope now been changed to everlasting life on earth? No, for the earthly hope is not, as it were, a second-chance prospect. Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and multitudes of other persons of outstanding faith had the hope of eternal life on earth, but this was not because they failed to measure up to the heavenly calling. They simply did not live in the time when the heavenly calling was in process according to Jehovah?s will. (Heb. 10:19, 20) Comparable faith and integrity are required of all who will gain everlasting life, whether in heaven or on a paradise earth. A Christian who is anointed with holy spirit and made a joint heir with Christ must prove faithful to that calling if he is to receive eternal life at all.?Rev. 2:10, 11; Phil. 3:8-14; Rom. 8:14-17.
This, though, does not mean that while they are on earth anointed Christians never sin. In the flesh, they are still imperfect and consequently they sin, as do all humans, and may even commit gross sin. The Christian disciple and Bible writer James, certainly an anointed Christian, wrote: "For we all stumble many times. If anyone does not stumble in word, this one is a perfect man." (Jas. 3:2; 2:5) It appears that such unintentional sin resulting from imperfection is what the apostle John meant by "sin that does not incur death." (1 John 5:16) God can forgive such sins. John said: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."?1 John 1:9.
But repentance is necessary. If an anointed Christian today practiced gross sin and did not manifest repentance, the congregation, out of obedience to God?s counsel, would have to disfellowship him. If he subsequently repented, though, he could be forgiven and reinstated, as was the man in Corinth.
God does not, however, forgive all sin. According to what Jesus said in Mark 3:28, 29, those who willfully and knowingly blaspheme God?s spirit can never be forgiven. And Paul wrote: "If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment." (Heb. 10:26, 27) Such unforgivable sin is evidently what John referred to as "sin that does incur death."?1 John 5:16.
If an anointed Christian sinned against the spirit, practicing willful sin without repentance and ?impaling the Son of God afresh,? God would completely and forever reject him. (Heb. 6:4-6) Not being repentant, he would not be reinstated. Jehovah would have to select and anoint another Christian as a replacement so that the full number of 144,000 would be kept complete. It might be compared to heaven?s choice of Matthias to replace unfaithful Judas Iscariot so that there would be twelve faithful apostles of Jesus on which to build the Christian congregation.?Acts 1:23-26; Eph. 2:20.
Is this to say that if an anointed Christian is disfellowshiped, Jehovah then and there selects a replacement? No human can say that, for we cannot know if the disfellowshiped individual has committed the unforgivable sin. Jehovah knows, and so the matter can be left in his hands. Just how and when he chooses to select a replacement is for him to decide. He did not give a detailed discussion of the matter in the Bible. So rather than speculate on what He will do or try to guess whether a disfellowshiped person is beyond the possibility of repentance, we can leave the matter up to Jehovah, the righteous Judge.?Heb. 12:23.
If a congregation has had to disfellowship a person but he later repents and is reinstated, we can rejoice over Jehovah?s mercy and forgiveness. (Luke 15:7) That is so whether the person professed the heavenly hope and continues to do so or had and continues to have hope of everlasting life on earth. All of us should take to heart the lessons learned from this?our own need to fight constantly against imperfection and sin, the importance of seeking forgiveness when we do sin and the necessity of enduring to the end so as to be saved.?Matt. 10:22.