Are These the Last Days?

by individual 40 Replies latest jw friends

jayhawk1

Hi Copernicus,
What do you mean that Fredhall is just background noise, blind and stupid. I thought his comments are thought provoking! [8>]
"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford
Copernicus

I thought his comments are thought provoking!

Jay – don’t feed the animals! They’ll only want more, ha, ha.
Has anybody but me noticed the IQ upgrade in Friday’s posts in this thread? Either he’s taking “brain lightening” or he’s got himself a ghostwriter with the initials YK.
Yadirf

Copernicus
You know, Capricious I rarely am not greatly impressed with the way you articulate your thoughts. They seem to flow without much effort on your part. It’s only just too bad that you haven’t got the sense of the smartest donkey. You have no insight into the proper meaning of the Bible, although you are able to quote it right and left.
Please substantiate this statement. Individual doesn’t know you like we do, and he/she may mistake the sense of “inside information” about changes implied in your words as more then what it is, eg: empty speculation.
“Empty speculation”? How would a person that has obviously and completely lost God’s spirit (assuming that you ever was in touch with it) know one way or another if what I said was empty speculation? You just don’t have it anymore, Mr. Capricious. You ought to come to the realization of that. Too, don’t you think that it’s rather presumptuous as well as audacious of yourself to become concerned over a conversion that is going on between another poster and I in the way that you have here? I can well imagine how Individual perhaps feels with you thinking that he could be so easily fooled UNLESS you entered the picture in his behalf in order that the day might be saved. We call persons like you loud mouths, in my neck of the woods.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Individual
Interested by your comment on the refinements that are due to happen to the societies understandings. How do you know this? Is this just what you are expecting or is there more to this?
I hope that I not too late getting back around to this thread for you to see this, I had emails to attend to and reply to today.
To answer your question, Individual, I have no “inside information” such as our most gracious friend Copernicus spoke of. You asked, how do I know that there are refinements due to happen insofar as the Society’s understandings? First of all, it must be admitted that the Society does have some misunderstandings on some rather major doctrinal matter, don’t you agree. Secondly, you probably noted what Copernicus said: “The Society will make changes because the intrusion of reality will force even those lords of denial to make unavoidable adjustments in the propaganda.” Well, don’t believe a word of what that poor fella says because it won’t come about in that way at all, at least not the refinements that are alluded to at Daniel 11:35. What you might find beneficial to do is open your Bible there and read that verse, and meditate upon it for a little while.
You will notice that it speaks of a “refining work” that is foretold to take place amongst the true worshipers of God, and such is to be accomplished BEFORE the “time of the end” begins. You will further notice the mention made of certain ones “having insight” … and how that it’s THESE ones that stumble and as a result a refinement comes about. Now think! Do you think that the Bible would label those that have become agnostics, atheists, and outright venomous opposers of the Bible and the Congregation of Christ as ones having “insight”? So you see those who get the ball rolling so as to affect a needed change in the Society’s teachings are not of the apostate sort, but are Bible believing, genuine Christians.
I must go for right now. If I wasn’t clear enough leave me a message. I will be checking back.
Friday
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Copernicus

Yowif:
You have no insight into the proper meaning of the Bible, although you are able to quote it right and left.
So, you’re comparing me to the WTS now? How unfair! That one really hurt Friday!
“Empty speculation”? How would a person that has obviously and completely lost God’s spirit (assuming that you ever was in touch with it) know one way or another if what I said was empty speculation?
I guess it was all those years I spent listening to the Society’s empty speculations that so finely attuned me so as to be able to recognize it when I hear it. Of course, like you, they had God’ spirit too. Come to think of it, it’s amazing that the plethora of self proclaimed scriptural exegetes on this board couldn’t agree on what day of the week it is, doctrinally speaking. Yes, this “spirit” you speak of is certainly a unifying force. I see that now.
Too, don’t you think that it’s rather presumptuous as well as audacious of yourself to become concerned over a conversion that is going on between another poster and I in the way that you have here?
Don’t you think it’s rather presumptuous as well as audacious of yourself to speak for God, interpreting his thoughts and speaking with such affected assurance?
I can well imagine how Individual perhaps feels with you thinking that he could be so easily fooled UNLESS you entered the picture in his behalf in order that the day might be saved. We call persons like you loud mouths, in my neck of the woods.
Yes, and in my neck of the woods we call people like you BS artists.
I have no “inside information” such as our most gracious friend Copernicus spoke of.
Read: I have no information period. Everything I say is the product of my own imagination. Nothing more.
First of all, it must be admitted that the Society does have some misunderstandings on some rather major doctrinal matter, don’t you agree.
Ahhhhh. . . Friday, you’ve ALWAYS been the master of understatement!
Secondly, you probably noted what Copernicus said: “The Society will make changes. . .
Don’t pay any attention to me, Individual, Friday says I don’t have God’s spirit.
You will notice that it speaks of a “refining work” that is foretold to take place amongst the true worshipers of God, and such is to be accomplished BEFORE the “time of the end” begins.
Hmmmm. . . isn’t this from the book of You Know, chapter 4,123 verse 789? I’m sure you’re aware I’ve agreed with YK on many of these points, from the perspective of logical apologia. Nothing more.
So you see those who get the ball rolling so as to affect a needed change in the Society’s teachings are not of the apostate sort, but are Bible believing, genuine Christians.
Yes, somehow “those who get the ball rolling so as to affect a needed change in the Society’s teachings” are those who have absolutely no influence whatsoever on policy, or the levers of power. How they “get this ball rolling” has yet to be explained.
Individual, if I offended you in any way by injecting myself into your exchange with Friday, I apologize. He and I have a bit of history together that tends to flare up at times. I’ve no doubt you’re quite capable of drawing your own conclusions from what’s been said here, and it wasn’t my intent to suggest otherwise or to sway you in any way.

I do have respect for the bible, it is my patience with those who claim unqualified success in unlocking it’s secrets (such as they are) that has worn a bit thin.
Yadirf

Copernicus
Don’t you think it’s rather presumptuous as well as audacious of yourself to speak for God, interpreting his thoughts and speaking with such affected assurance?

In what way have I claimed to speak FOR God by my merely believing that I understand it? You are quite unreasonable, Mr. Capricious.
Yes, and in my neck of the woods we call people like you BS artists.

You have yet to prove that it is BS, Mr. Capricious. All you’ve done is ridicule it. You haven’t explained why it’s wrong in your view.
Read: I have no information period. Everything I say is the product of my own imagination. Nothing more.

Like I said above, you have yet to prove what you say. All you really ever do is make statements like you just did, no proof offered. If you had a good argument to offer you would offer it. You are helpless up beside someone that gives the right … the obvious right … explanation of a verse such as Daniel 11:35. All you can do is say: I don’t believe it … I’m telling you that I don’t swallow that at all! No reason given … no argument … nothing. Just “You gotta be wrong!”
I do have respect for the bible, it is my patience with those who claim unqualified success in unlocking it’s secrets (such as they are) that has worn a bit thin.

Prove that you have RESPECT for the Bible. I suppose that you include me in with those who “claim unqualified success in unlocking [the Bible’s] secrets.” 1) Prove to me and all other onlookers that I’ve misinterpreted Daniel 11:35. Moreover, why don’t YOU explain to all of us what the verse means. I’ll be right here waiting on you to do those two things.
Friday
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larc

Friday,
I don't want to distract everyone from the bickering, but I do have a question. Have you submitted your understanding of Daniel to Bethel? In my opinion, it would be an excersise in futility if you did. Just curious.
OK - let the fighting continue.
Yadirf

Larcboy
Yes, I have.
Thirdson

All,
I fail to see anyone proving anything about Daniel 11, least of all making it fit JWs and the Watchtower society.
Daniel 11:33- And as regards those having insight among the people, they will impart understanding to the many. And they will certainly be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for some days.
11:34- But when they are made to stumble they will be helped with a little help; and many will certainly join themselves to them by means of smoothness.
11:35- And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and to do a whitening, until the time of the end; because it is yet for the time appointed.
Verse 32 refers to people knowing their God who prevail. The following verses talks about those having insight. The good news for all who stumble is that they will be cleansed and whitened as a result of stumbling. What am I missing?
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
Yadirf

To Larcboy again:
Here's one example of where I called the Society's attention to my understanding of Daniel 11:35. It's a page to my personal web site that contains a letter with its accompanying document that I mailed to them in 1999.
http://4heavens.homestead.com/9.html
Friday
Copernicus

Right on cue Larc. . .
Friday, how I love our little debates. . .
Prove that you have RESPECT for the Bible.
I said I did, therefore I do. If that’s insufficient for you, you’ll have to live with it. Of course, I guess I could join you and the other self-ordained prognosticators here and resort to posting my own ramblings and musings as to what portions of it mean. . . would that be an indicator of respect in you eyes? By the way, wasn’t it the Pharisees who kept demanding proofs? Hopefully the parallels won’t escape you.
I suppose that you include me in with those who “claim unqualified success in unlocking [the Bible’s] secrets.”
Wow. . . you caught that huh? And I thought I was being subtle.
Prove to me and all other onlookers that I’ve misinterpreted Daniel 11:35.
More proof? ROTFL! Prove to YOU and ALL onlookers? Prove what? That you’ve taken something written thousands of years ago and superimposed it over a set of contemporaneous circumstances that appear to you as having some connection with it? Am I getting warm yet?
Daniel 11:35 makes reference to “the time of the end” (which, in a way, is what this thread was originally about). Before I answer your questions, prove to me and all onlookers that we’re in this specified time period. Unless you can do so, your argument and your interpretation is moot, and undeserving of further comment. Considering the assertions you’ve made, that particular burden of proof falls on you. And I’ll be right here waiting. . .
So we don’t lose the moment. . . let’s repeat:
You said:
So you see those who get the ball rolling so as to affect a needed change in the Society’s teachings are not of the apostate sort, but are Bible believing, genuine Christians.
To which I responded:
Yes, somehow “those who get the ball rolling so as to affect a needed change in the Society’s teachings” are those who have absolutely no influence whatsoever on policy, or the levers of power. How they “get this ball rolling” has yet to be explained.
Yes, how DO they get the ball rolling? Do tell. Will it be that old standby, divine intervention? That must be it, since nothing short of that would be the least efficacious. Yes, God is going to intervene in behalf of all those “Bible believing, genuine Christians” like you Friday. It that it?

Are These the Last Days?

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