Enoch - Transferred so as not to see death

by nowino 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  jeanniebeanz

  I was always curious about Moses death. The bible states that his eyes had not dimmed and his health was not diminished, but that he died at the hand of Jehovah. Why would the bible state that Enoch was 'transferred', but Moses 'died' when they were both smitten by God?

  Seems like splitting hairs to me, and the only thing that I could ever come up with was that Moses body was buried and saw decay whereas Enoch?s departure left no body. Something along the lines of a Star Trek moment, I suppose. "Scotty, beam me..." well never mind...

  So is the bible here saying that Enoch did not see death because his body did not rot?

  More legalism...

  Jean
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  Leolaia

  Actually, it is commonly thought that the "two witnesses" of Revelation 11 who are "put to death" are in fact Elijah and Moses. The passage is itself based on Zechariah 4:1-14 which refers to the priests Joshua and Zerubbabel as "the two anointed ones who stands before the Lord of the whole world" (cf. "these are the two olive trees and two lamps that stand before the Lord of the world" in Revelation 11:4), and the allusion of "locking up the sky so that it does not rain as long as they are prophesying" in v. 6 is a clear allusion to Elijah in 1 Kings 17:1 and the allusion to "turning water into blood and striking the whole world with any plague" is an allusion to Moses in Exodus 7:17, 11:10. An aternative version of this oracle appears in the Apocalypse of Elijah, and interestingly there the two witnesses are Elijah and Enoch:

  "Then when Elijah and Enoch hear that the shameless one has revealed himself in the holy place, they will come down and fight with him... The shameless one will hear and he will be angry and he will fight with them in the market place of the great city. And he will spend seven days fighting with them. And they will spend three and one half years in the market place dead, while all the people see them. But on the fourth day they will rise up and they will scold him saying, 'O shameless one, O son of lawlessness. Are you not ashemed of yourself since you are leading astray the people of God for whom you did not suffer?' " (Apocalypse of Elijah 4:7-15).

  Hippolytus also interpreted the "two witnesses" as Enoch and Elijah: "By one week, therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world of which week the two prophets Enoch and Elijah will take up the half. For they will preach 1,260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations" (Treatise on Christ and the Antichrist, 43). So among some Christians and Jews at least, it was believed that when Elijah and Enoch return just before Judgment Day, they would die and then be raised up to life.
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  Leolaia

  Jean....According to Jewish tradition, Enoch and Elijah were taken bodily into heaven while Moses experienced a physical death and was buried while his soul was taken up into heaven. The Assumption of Moses even described how Joshua witnessed Moses double, one Moses being buried by Michael the archangel and another Moses being escorted up on a cloud into heaven (cf. Jude 9 on the burial of Moses, which depends on either the Testament of Moses or the Assumption of Moses). The other patriarchs were also described as having their souls borne into heaven in Jewish literature -- Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. In fact, Luke 16:19-31 is dependent on these traditions and describes Abraham as still living in an afterlife in a blessed abode. For more information, see my post on this subject:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/64970/1003158/post.ashx#1003158
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  nowino

  Leolaia, would you happen to know what Enoch means in Hebrew?
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  Swan

  Whenever I asked about Enoch I was told the Bible doesn't say. There was no speculation on what transferred meant, and that was that. My research of the indexes unearthed little information on the subject to enlighten me. I was then told to wait on Jehovah to reveal the answer in some future new light.

  Tammy
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  vitty

  Didnt he go straight into paradise?

  I know it hasnt come yet but as God can jiggle time, I think hes in the new system waiting for us
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  Swan

  Didnt he go straight into paradise?

  Maybe he's been living large in a house in San Diego since 1925?

  Tammy
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  Leolaia

  nowino...I believe the root has the meaning of "initiate" or "inaugrurate"; it occurs in Deuteronomy 20:5; 1 Kings 8:63; Nehemiah 12:27 with the sense of "dedicate", as in a dedicating a house or temple. It can also occur with the sense of "teach" (cf. Proverbs 22:6). Thus, we have the "dedication" of the city of Enoch in the Cainite geneology in Genesis 4:17-18. As for the Sethite Enoch of 5:21-24, the sense may be of Enoch's "initiation into the mysteries of heaven and earth" as was the case with Enmeduranki and in the Enochic corpus. See also:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/67655/1.ashx
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  RunningMan

  The JW interpretation of the Elijah story is really quite amusing. If you look it up in the Insight book, you will find that Elijah's trip to heaven in the flaming chariot (with no mantle, incidentally) was just a big, naked plane ride.

  You see, this is based on two pieces of logic. First of all, many years after Elijah went for his ride, he wrote a letter to the king - a bit of a problem, that. Also, JWs believe that no one went to heaven before Jesus (based on the scripture that says that no one ascended to heaven except he who descended from heaven). Therefore Elijah could not have gone to heaven, just for a short ride.
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  Narkissos

  That there was some sort of belief in re-incarnation in NT times (which is to be found also in later judaism, cf. for instance http://www.kabbalaonline.org/Introductions/firststeps/Judaism_and_Reincarnation.asp) and it was not limited to the coming back of "Elijah" in John is also clear from Mark 8:21ff and parallels:

  Jesus went on with his disciples to the villages of Caesarea Philippi; and on the way he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that I am?" And they answered him, "John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets (Matthew specifically mentions Jeremiah)."

  This is interesting in many ways, for it attests a tradition in which Jesus, not John, was Elijah; and another (?) in which Jesus was John the Baptist (the latter flatly contradicts the general Gospel picture that John and Jesus were contemporaries, cf. also the expression "since the days of John the Baptist until now" on the lips of Jesus).

  The transfiguration story, which is followed by another identification of Elijah to John (Mark 9//), is also related to this issue, since the vision of three distinct persons (Moses, Elijah, Jesus) ends on the following climax: "they saw no one with them any more, but only Jesus."

  As for the meaning of the name Enoch (Hebrew chanok), which appears in two parallel genealogies in Genesis (of Cain, J, 4:17; of Seth, P, 5:18ff), it has been explained in a number of ways: according to the Canaanite chanaku, meaning "follower", "adept"; in Biblical Hebrew it is related to the root chnk which is used in the sense of "dedicate" (cf. the feast of Hanukka), which is also attested in Palmyrene. Or from Egyptian chnkt, referring to the foundation sacrifice (Enoch son of Cain is the founder of the first city). In Hebrew tradition Enoch is a solar symbol (he lives 365 years!), which became very important in the Qumran tradition -- especially in the Book of Jubilees which promotes a solar calendar. Thinking about it, the fact that Hanukka corresponds to the winter solstice, just as Christmas, may be more than a coincidence.