The Jewish Messiah?

by AlmostAtheist 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  DevonMcBride

  Is there a translation of Isa 7:14 that references a rooster? I don't understand this reference.

  Dave, that web site is a satire.
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  googlemagoogle

  deputy, and where does Isa 7:14 fit in there?
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  AlmostAtheist

  Dave, that web site is a satire.

  Step 1. Actually visit the link

  Step 2. Comment on said link

  Dave, of the "tends to skip step 1" class
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  Leolaia

  Deputy Dog....It doesn't have to say anything about Isaiah 7:14. In fact, the webpage is doing exactly what the gospel writers did with Isaiah 7:14 and many other scriptures -- most of which had nothing originally to do with Messianism -- by arbitrarily applying them to Jesus and even writing the Jesus story to accomodate it to these texts. Take a look at the so-called "prophecies" of Jesus in the Psalms and read them in their context and you can easily see that they were taken out of context by the gospel writers and turned into messianic prophecies. You can pick and choose whatever you want from the OT that out of context can refer to anything you want it to be. That is what "Moshe" has done with his rooster. It's a hilarious spoof of the exegetical tradition that was involved in the composition of the gospels.

  BTW, I think this is a different "Moshe" -- not our Moshe?
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  AlmostAtheist

  In fact, the webpage is doing exactly what the gospel writers did with Isaiah 7:14 and many other scriptures -- most of which had nothing originally to do with Messianism -- by arbitrarily applying them to Jesus and even writing the Jesus story to accomodate it to these texts.

  It was a scales-falling-from-the-eyes moment for me when I sat down and actually read a few of the "scores of messianic prophecies" with a critical eye. Those weren't prophecies, they were just words. A guy writing about his kid, somebody talking about some maiden, somebody talking about a great new way to make rope they'd just figure out.

  When you drop the idea that the Bible is inspired, it starts to make a lot more sense.

  Dave
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  Deputy Dog

  It was a scales-falling-from-the-eyes moment for me when I sat down and actually read a few of the "scores of messianic prophecies" with a critical eye.

  I guess you must have a more critical eye than Saul of Tarsus?

  OK, Guys, Gals

  Here is my point! AlmostAtheist wanted a Jewish perspective on the Messiah. Do we not agree that the Gospels written by Jews, because they believed (as do I) Jesus is Messiah. I guess, it depends on which Jews you want to believe.

  D Dog
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  Narkissos

  There is very little that can rightly be called "messianism" in the OT itself. Some of it, in Haggai / Zechariah, points to Zerubbabel or the tandem Zerubbabel / Joshua as the "messiah(s)" -- one of the first failed expectations.

  Messianism was still in the making in the 1st century AD. The Christian version is, of course, designed to fit Jesus; the Pharisaic-rabbinical version reflected in the above sites is another, which obviously doesn't suit Jesus. Both make "free (out-of-context) use" of the OT texts, and the "rooster spoof" really applies to both IMO.
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  Deputy Dog

  Nark

  Would you call Genesis 3:15 Messianic?

  D Dog
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  Narkissos

  DDog:

  Certainly not. And interestingly not even the NT refers to it as such, with the possible (and cryptic, at best) exception of Revelation 12.
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  Deputy Dog

  Nark

  How about Romans 16:20 and IMHO Galatians 4:4? It seems to me Paul had Genesis 3:15 in mind when he wrote those passages.

  D Dog