Swordofjah, what's with this 'new' prophesy? Why are you making things up as you go along, why do you keep trying to put the square peg in a round hole?
I don't recall any scripture where Jah used men to prophesy something and it didn't come about. None of his words come back EMPTY, correct? Well, hasn't the org's dates come up EMPTY?
If your serving Jah that's fine with me, its your perogative, but let's be realistic here. Your trying to put a sguare peg in a round hole.
Guest77
In 50 words or less prove the GB of JW's is NOT a False Prophet
by Honesty 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Golf
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jeanniebeanz
I don't recall any scripture where Jah used men to prophesy something and it didn't come about. None of his words come back EMPTY, correct? Well, hasn't the org's dates come up EMPTY?
You know, anything past this is really just splitting hairs. They stated that certain events would take place on certain dates, and they were wrong. Prophets are not wrong, and they have clearly stated that they were, as a group, prophets.
Any further argument is really pointless unless you are so desparate to have an incorrect position be correct that you will accept falsehood for truth. In that case, it's like arguing with a tree, why bother?
Jeannie
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undercover
where the brothers not interpreting scriptures, erronously I agree, but they were not providing a "new" prophesy. For example 1914, sure they did not know exactly what was to happen, they assumed some things, but they were reading scriptures, analyzing, calculating and knew something special would happen in 1914.
What of Biblical proportions happened in 1914? The Gentile Times ended? Prove it. Jesus returned? Prove it. Prove anything happened in 1914 that is of significance to Bible prophecy or teaching.
Back to the prophet thing. Several quotes have been supplied where the WTS claims prophet status. Plain and simple. They claim it. As you admit, they have been in error. They spoke in Jehovah's name that something would happen and they were wrong. Prophets who speak in the name of Jehovah and who are wrong are false prophets. Plain and simple.
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Leolaia
***g68 10/8 p. 23 A Time to 'Life Your Head' in Confident Hope***
True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world," even announcing a specific date. Some have gathered groups of people with them and fled to the hills or withdrawn into their houses waiting for the end. Yet, nothing happened. The "end" did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying . Why? What was missing? Missing was the full measure of evidence required in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them.
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whyamihere
"New Light"...we will find out later they are right by "New Light"
Brooke
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AlmostAtheist
***g68 10/8 p. 23 A Time to 'Life Your Head' in Confident Hope***
True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world," even announcing a specific date. Some have gathered groups of people with them and fled to the hills or withdrawn into their houses waiting for the end. Yet, nothing happened. The "end" did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying .
According to Sword of Jah, those other groups that misinterpreted the end time prophecies weren't false prophets. Wow, Sword, did you give Brooklyn a call? Maybe we can get a retraction printed in an upcoming Watchtower...
Dave of the "not holding my breath" class
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AlmostAtheist
*** The Watchtower Reprints, July 15, 1894, p. 1677 ***
[Scan Available]We see no reason for changing the figures ? nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God?s dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble.
Courtesy of Quotes.watchtower.ca. So they called the 1914 date both the 'end of the time of trouble' (which no one today would contend is true, including the Watchtower) and 'God's date'. So based on god's word, they picked a date and then declared it 'God's date'.
How is this not a false prophecy?
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BluesBrother
Because they do not prophesy (cannot be a false prophet if you are not a prophet), they study and interpret prophesies already written in the Bible. Two completely different things.
So, C T Russell studies the Bible and ,along with others, works out that by convaluting various scriptures, doing some maths and a little archaology then by adding up the number of steps, or was it inches?, in the Great Pyramid - he states ahead of time that the world system would climax in 1914.
Is that not a prophecy? by claiming that this is the only correct understanding of the Bible one sets oneself up as Gods interpreter, or prophet
OXford Dictionary "Prophet - a person regarded as revealing or interpreting divine will"
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stevenyc
If they had said 1914 is only their interpretation, then they would be able to get away with it, but they don't. When you see references to dates, they are statements; 1914, which was the end of the gentile times. Millions now living will never die. etc...
I did a search in the bible for '1914' and guess what, it's not there. We all know how the organization gets this number. So, Gods word doesn't use dates, but the WTBTS does. This is an interpretation, akin to early prophet interpretation of dreams. This in anyone?s book IS prophesying.
Of course, all their prophecies never come true. Nobody or group is a prophet. However, look at the twisting abilities they use to say 'we absolutely are not a prophet'. Beautiful semantics, let me explain:
Take this awake; can you see where it says that the 'faithful and desecrate slave' have made mistakes:
*** Awake! 1993 March 22 pp.3-4 Why So Many False Alarms? ***
[Footnotes]
Jehovah's Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus' second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions 'in the name of Jehovah.' Never did they say, 'These are the words of Jehovah.' The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah's Witnesses, has said: "We have not the gift of prophecy." (January 1883, page 425) "Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible." (December 15, 1896, page 306) The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah's spirit "does not mean those now serving as Jehovah's witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes." (May 15, 1947, page 157) "The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic." (August 15, 1950, page 263) "The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)"?February 15, 1981, page 19.You can't see it because its the 'Jehovah's Witnesses' that have made the slip-up's not the 'faithful and desecrate slave'. This is subtle, however quite strong. It starts with the eagerness of JW's. This phrase will ring bell's to the 1976 people where the WTBTS blamed the rank and file for being too eager with regard to 1975. Also, who is the footnote written to? I don't believe it's intended for the people outside the organization, but for the rank and file. How often, when speaking about the writers of the WT are they referred to as 'The brothers preparing these publications ' compared with 'the faithful and desecrate slave'.
Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions 'in the name of Jehovah.' Never did they say, 'These are the words of Jehovah.'
It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes."
"The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic."
These are bold claims when you take into account the following:
Cross-examination of Frederick W. Franz in the case of Olin Moyle v. WTB&TS, 1943, Sections #2596-2597, p. 866.
Q. At any rate, Jehovah God is now the editor of the paper [The Watchtower], is that right?
A. He is today the editor of the paper.
00Q. How long has He been editor of the paper?
A. Since its inception he has been guiding it.
Cross-examination of Nathan Homer Knorr in the case of Olin Moyle v. WTB&TS, 1943, Section #4421, p. 1474.
Q. In fact, it [The Watchtower] is set forth directly as God's Word, isn't it?
A. Yes, as His word.
Q. Without any qualification whatsoever?
A. That is right.
(http://www.irr.org/English-JW/jwfacten.html#Return%2015 )I've thought about different ways to express this, however, what Carl Sagan says in Broca's Brain, pages 332-333, does a pretty good job:
Doctrines that make no predictions are less compelling than those which make correct predictions; they are in turn more successful than doctrines that make false predictions. But not always.
One prominent American religion confidently predicted that the world would end in 1914. Well, 1914 has come and gone, and -- while the events of that year were certainly of some importance -- the world does not, at least so far as I can see, seem to have ended.
There are at least three responses that an organized religion can make in the face of such a failed and fundamental prophecy. They could have said, "Oh, did we say '1914'? So sorry, we meant '2014.' A slight error in calculation. Hope you weren't inconvenienced in any way." But they did not.
They could have said, "Well, the world would have ended, except we prayed very hard and interceded with God so He spared the Earth." But they did not.
Instead, they did something much more ingenious. They announced that the world had in fact ended in 1914, and if the rest of us hadn't noticed, that was our lookout.
It is astonishing in the face of such transparent evasions that this religion has any adherents at all. But religions are tough. Either they make no contentions which are subject to disproof or they quickly redesign doctrine after disproof. The fact that religions can be so shamelessly dishonest, so contemptuous of the intelligence of their adherents, and still flourish does not speak very well for the tough-mindedness of the believers. But it does indicate, if a demonstration were needed, that near the core of the religious experience is something remarkably resistant to rational inquiry
Steve. -
Sunspot
God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets... they are known throughout the world as Jehovah's Witnesses. (Awake! 1986 June 8 p.9)
Nothing is interpreted but the interpretation comes from God and is then published. (Watchtower 1943 July 1 pp. 202-203)
There have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet... the 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968)
SOJ,
If you were a householder and a JW had left you with the above quoted magazines---what other meaning or interpretation would you have taken away from reading this?
Don't you think that bold statements as these are deceptive and disingenuous, to say the least?
(Thanks to Elsewhere for these examples)