by holly 97 Replies latest jw friends
so, for those who believe the bible, who are these people and what scripture would back that?
Well, It's not the JW's, that's for sure, what with the growth rate of india and China ( 1/2 the inhabited earth) divided by the growth rate of the JW's, there's no way even with thousands of years they'd ever get it done, period, it's just not possble. So, if you want to adjust the bible to say HALF the inhabited earth, or less, fine, otherwise, it just does'nt work.
Re: In the last days there will be a witness to all the inhabited earth........
Great Topic Title, the Truth will out !
Who told you this?thats what the church taught me for 17 years. so if its not true, what is true? what happens to people who arent born again? holly
What church? You tell us what happens to people who aren't born again.
leolaia,
you said: myelaine...This "great crowd" in Revelation 19:6-8 is already in "heaven," see v. 1.
With all respect to you, I have to disagree.
1. in verse 6 we hear a voice issuing from heaven saying BE praising God all you his slaves the small and the great. This indicates to me that perhaps these great and small hadn't been praising God before. All those in heaven would have been and ARE
2. in verse 3 it was said that the crowd in heaven said FOR A SECOND TIME.....it does not say that the great crowd in verse 6 is specifically in heaven or that the crowd in heaven said FOR THE THIRD TIME.....
3. this great crowd says the marriage of the Lamb has ARRIVED......this supper is not in heaven but on earth. And the Lamb and His bride had arrived on earth. This crowd is witnessing this arrival.
4. God had begun to rule as king.......He already ruled in heaven....these witnesses are now proclaiming his rule on earth, let US rejoice and be overjoyed....
5. If this crowd in vs.6 is the same as that in vs. 1 what would be the point of "identifying" them again , so to speak, as a sound of many.....
michelle
Holly,
I have a feeling that you are starting to get frustrated with too many questions, and yet too much information to mill through. I sure do know the feeling. You are torn between the JW's and the ex-JW's. You are searching for answers, and apparently you are not getting satisfying answers. Relax and know that your doubts are not going to dissolve overnight. I think that you are trying to get to the bottom of your doubts and questions too quickly. Give yourself some time. Some people have been searching all their lives and still don't know what the truth really is.
Think about this. We are just human, and I honestly don't think that anyone can know FOR A FACT what to do regarding their religion, regarding which group they should join, if any..In the end, you need to do what your heart tells you to do. Since nobody knows for SURE, you need to find the answer which will give you peace of mind, and not the answer which will give you a truth beyond doubt, because there is no such thing.
If you think that the JW's might be right, and you think you can find peace of mind by getting baptized and be a JW, then, by all means do so. You have seen and read this board, you know their flaws. On the other hand, if you have too many doubts about them, if they don't answer your questions, then don't join, as doubts will only grow and brood. I wish, I really wish I could help you but I can't. I struggle with the same things you are struggling with. The only advice I can give to you at this point is to stop searching for what is true, and start searching for what brings peace to you.
Holly,
I'm really interested in hearing your take on the meek inheriting the earth. Both the psalmist in Psalm 37:11 and Jesus in Matt. 5:5 said the meek would inherit the earth. What happened? Were neither of them meek?
WT 10-1-1980
". . .the Kingdom witnessing of Jehovah?s Witnesses since 1914 has been something far different from what Christendom?s missionaries have published both before and since 1914. Different ?how so?. . .What Jehovah?s Witnesses have preached world wide since 1918 is something unique . . .the preaching of this good news of the Messianic kingdom as having been established in the heavens in 1914 . . ."
JW?s believe that Matt 24:14 refers to Jesus Christ returning invisibly in the year 1914 and establishing God?s kingdom in heaven at that time, with the Watchtower Society as his visible agency on earth.. The good news or gospel they preach is this gospel ? the good news that Christ has ALREADY returned invisibly. They also believe that Jehovah choose the Watchtower Society in 1918-1919 to be his sole channel to speak for him. This is what is commonly called "the FDS doctrine".
So, Holly, JW?s admit that the gospel or good news that they preach door to door is a different gospel from what was preached prior to 1914.
The Bible plainly warns against the preaching of a different gospel that is NOT written in the Scriptures! See Gal 1:8-9.
Can you prove by using the Bible alone that Jesus did in fact return invisibly
Can you prove by using the Bible alone that Jehovah choose the Watchtower Society alone to represent him in 1918?
Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus ever went house to house preaching?
Where in the Bible does it speak about actual experiences of this door to door preaching by the early Christians?
Don?t you agree that if this door to door preaching had been a regular feature of apostolic activity as it is with the JW?s today, that actual experiences of this activity would appear written in the Bible?
NewLight2
Newlight2,
Luke 10 should be the model for preaching. I'd like to know how many Witnesses fulfill verses 5-7? Also, verses 8-11 are clear that if a city does not accept you what you are to do. But what does the Watchtower Society do if a city does not welcome them? It takes them to the Supreme Court!
Sorry I forgot the page number on that quote:
WT 10-1-1980 pp 28-29
". . .the Kingdom witnessing of Jehovah?s Witnesses since 1914 has been something far different from what Christendom?s missionaries have published both before and since 1914. Different ?how so?. . .What Jehovah?s Witnesses have preached world wide since 1918 is something unique . . .the preaching of this good news of the Messianic kingdom as having been established in the heavens in 1914 . . ."
Holly,
Another point to add to the list is that whoever is preaching this message would need to be preaching it "right". Of course, I don't think there can be a "right" version of something that I think contradicts itself, and based on that I can easily believe that two honest groups that start with the premise "The Bible is Truth" could come to two different conclusions, wholly provable from the Bible.
But among those that believe there is a right way to see things, there are those that feel the JW's have the gospel message wrong. One sermon outline you might enjoy describes the "facts to believe, commands to obey, and promises to receive" about the gospel: http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/top/gospel2.htm
It isn't real "churchy". If the buzz words were different, it could almost be a talk at the Kingdom Hall.
By pushing obedience to the Watchtower over obedience to Christ, these folks believe that the Watchtower puts itself in the position of preaching a "different gospel". 2Cor 11:4. Therefore it wouldn't matter how much they preached, they would never be the ones fulfilling any prophecies.
This isn't my position, I'm paraphrasing a few other people, but I'll defend it as well as I can if anyone wants to rebut.
Edited to add: Looks like NewLight2 beat me to this one!
Dave
