Are some people REALLY better off in high-control groups?

by seattleniceguy 39 Replies latest jw friends

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  beebee

  Not counting those that are born and raised within a high control group (for whom this is the only way of living they know), for those who join, all I can say is that it seems there are a lot of people who are raised to be dependent. A lot of parents these days, and even back when I was a kid, do everything for their kids, ask little in return, teach them how to take care of themselves (my husband and all his siblings left home unable to cook, clean or do their own laundry..two stayed at home until they married), shelter them from the types of issues and decisions they need to make, etc.

  They are trying to be loving and nuturing, but they fail to teach their children how to be adults. When these kids are adults, and need to get out on their own, they are ill equipped to make any sort of decisions. They need someone to guide them and religion provides one of the more constructive tools (others end up in controlling relationships or as losers).

  Add to this the number of people who really have little faith in themselves and their own abilities. Then you have those that need some reason to feel superior to others. These groups have their members convinced that ONLY they are right, hence the smug final message from Holly. She feels she has it right, and we are all wrong. It isn't a matter of agreeing to disagree, she really thinks she's made the better decision.

  I stand by the analogy I made in the other thread, being part of a controlling religion is very much like being with an abusive spouse. The victim eventually buys the garbage that they deserve everything bad that happens, and that if they'd only be "a little bit better" they'd get all the good things and be happy.
• 

  seattleniceguy

  Hmm...okay. JAVA's jail example got me thinking. Clearly, some people are better off being in jail, at least in their present state. I don't think anyone would argue that jail is the best environment for a person to live, but it may be better than any other alternative for a person in his current situation.

  With groups such as the Witness, I suppose the life they offer may be relatively better than what a person currently has. But surely, stagnating at that stage is not healthy. I find it sickly ironic that a group that admittedly can help people to get off the very bottom rung keeps people stuck at the second-to-bottom one.

  SNG
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  Doubtfully Yours

  In my congregation, there are people that if it wasn't for the stuff they get busy on in the religion, they'd for sure have no life whatsoever!

  Also, some elderly and sick people that would have a very sad existence if not for the assistance provided by some members of the WTBTS. They sure are good for nothing much, but they're made to believe they're very valuable and the work they're doing is admirable. All crap, you know, but these type of people thrive under this much stimuli.

  Some other people like a very busy, structured life, and the WTBTS sure keeps you busy and structured down to the last second in your day if you so want it.

  DY - Different strokes for different folks!
• 

  jgnat

  There is a term for a person with this condition, it is called "institutionalized".

  Yes, there are people better off to stay where they are, even though they will never reach their full potential. For these sad few, they are better off than to put them through the trauma of wrenching them away For them, the institution is all they know.

  I would say that four out of forty members of the people I see in my Kingdom Hall would be better off staying in.
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  hopelesslystained

  Well, my folks who are now 77 & 80 are better off remaining in the high control group of jws. They have no ability to operate outside of it after 40+ years of intense involvement. Leaving now would mean their whole life was a waste. I do not talk with them about it, that is the only way we can have any relationship at all. I politely change the subject when they refer to the society at all. They get their few minutes of time in and I manage to escape what is useless and depressing arguments. At this point, they do not even remember if I was ever baptised or not.
• 

  Poztate

  It seems that some people like having their major decisions made for them, and also like having a lot of their thinking done for them

  Take my Wife....please. Damm who was the comic that had that line ?? Henny Youngman ??

  So again I ask, is anyone truly better off in a high-control group?

  The answer is YES. There are people who can't cope with life without having a soother stuck in their mouth. If they had to face reality it would cause serious emotional issues for them. It is better for them to stay in the box.
• 

  Poztate

  In case some have not seen this...Here is the Box..

  My Lovely Box

  I want to show you my box.

  It is a lovely box. It is sturdy and strong box.

  It is beautifully shaped with 6 smooth sides

  I love my box

  In side my box I am in my own favorite place

  My box clearly defines the boundaries of my world

  I know who is in and who is out

  I know what is in and what is out.

  My box answers all of my questions??I like that.

  I am secure in my box.

  I love my box.

  I occasionally invite people into my box

  I measure them and size them to be sure they fit into my box

  So long as they are the right size I can have them in.

  Not many measure up.

  Those that don?t fit have the option of changing their size.

  They can lose and arm or a leg.

  But strangely most of them don?t want to do that.

  They tell me they don?t like my box.

  I don?t understand these people.

  I love my box.

  Some people tell me they like my box

  It is mostly the ones who fit my box who tell me this.

  They have one just like it.

  They love their box too.

  Inside my box I am in my own favorite place.

  My box clearly defines the boundaries of my world.

  I know who is in and who is out.

  I know what is in and what is out.

  My box answers all my questions??I like that.

  I am secure in my box.

  I love my box.

  I have heard other people talk about their box.

  There are some mighty strange boxes out there

  Some decorate their boxes on the outside and make them pretty.

  Some line their boxes on the inside to make them soft and comfortable.

  Some like their boxes plain and simple.

  Some eat in their boxes, others don?t.

  Some have parties and celebrations, other don?t.

  Some say a box is a place to be serious.

  Others laugh a lot in their boxes.

  I don?t know, I don?t know.

  All I know is I love my box.

  I thought about leaving my box once

  I looked around but everything seemed so?well?dangerous

  I thought if I left my box that I would end up losing my way.

  Outside my box I had feelings that frightened me.

  I heard words that were different from my words.

  I saw people I didn?t understand.

  I didn?t know where the boundaries were.

  The world was too big.

  I didn?t know what to do.

  In the end I went back to my box.

  Inside my box I am in my own favorite place.

  My box clearly defines the boundaries of my world.

  I know who is in and who is out.

  I know what is in and what is out.

  My box answers all of my questions?.I like that.

  I am secure in my box.

  I love my box!
• 

  JAVA

  SNG -- Some people might be better off in high-control groups, but I think the numbers are few compared to the masses in groups like the Witnesses. I believe most on this forum think their life would be better today if their JW years were spent going to college, developing careers and normal relationships. Of course, there's no guarantee that so-called normal causes a state of well-being and contentment. Yet, the more resources we have usually means we're better able to cope in the day-to-day world. I don't believe most JWs benifit after it's all said and done by turning over their free-will to the jokers in Brooklyn. Most would do far better living life with normal expectations instead of seeing others as dead meat because they are not Jehovah's Witnesses. But, "some people. . ."
• 

  A Paduan

  Well, some - fact is, jail can be the right place for some people - it gives many time out to meditate, because their current routine is done for them.

  Jwism is like a hell (prison), an Egypt that one choses to go down to and be enslaved, albeit for false promises, but nevertheless, a person gets to be kept and soujourn for a while if they hold up their side of the bargain (work) - it may be a necessary growth step for some.

  When there are no more stories to bind the clay, the jailers may realise it, that you may try and leave, and it might get nastier. ( Let heavier work be laid upon the men that they may labor at it and pay no regard to lying words........ The taskmasters were urgent, saying, "Complete your work, your daily task, as when there was straw.")

  For others it remains an appropriate place for our protection from them. It is no mistake that the scriptures may readily be understood by some as a trade (a reward for work) or as a threat (a loss if one doesn't comply with decency) - can you imagine the behaviour of some people if they didn't feel they had to comply with fundamentalist rules ? It keeps a lot of people in line - and for others it teaches.
• 

  dostprefer

  Are Some people really better off in high-control groups?

  There are at least two 'organisations' which are perceived by some as 'high control groups' . But are those perceptions the reality? In one group you see them happy, smiling and the members will reassure you that that they are indeed BETTER OFF being part of that group and that is the concensus within the group. So to fit that into the framework of the topic question the answer is "The people who belong that group are the 'some' who are really better off. But better off than whom?

  Than the second group which spends considerable time and effort in sending out recruiting messages which are ignored by virtually all and heeded by only a miserable percentage of group one.

  You see, group one have happier challenges in encounters with real people. Nothing like meeting the direct honest and innocent gaze of a sincere enquirer. Better that than languishing under the high control of the fear of man, the anxiety of desiring the favourable opinion of others and the other weapon which Satan has so deftly used - the tyranny of personal pride and stubbornness. .