The dim people

by Norm 65 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Ustabee

  One of the first things I learned at my Mother's knee, was to respect other people and their views.

  If someone is sincere in their beliefs, criticizing their intellectual capacity is a sure fire way of alienating them to whatever you are trying point out to them. I certainly do not condone the things done by the WTS. It is reprehensible to ignore the facts. And, that, it would appear, is just what the GB and the powers in Brooklyn are doing and have been doing for decades.

  However, to brand in a certain way; [e.g., stupid, brain-dead]individual members of any group without even knowing them personally, is the height of presumptuousness. Is the GB and the WTS leadership stupid or brain-dead? It sure looks like it. They will pay a heavy price, either in this world or the other.

  Tina:

  You're absolutely right, the litany of charges you referred to make my heart sick to think that I went along with all of that for years. I don't anymore, the light is shining brightly.

  I have to respond to someone calling me stupid, however, that is an insult, especially since the person has seen a few posts and has no idea who I am, where I am, or what I'm really like. I am a Vietnam Vet and I went through this 30 years ago. [Baby killer, etc, etc.]
  Sort of like calling all black people lazy, or all Latinos theives. People are individuals and you can only reach one at a time. so, lighten up, will ya?
• 

  bigboi

  Ustabee:

  Yep, I agree. You won't reach ppl being arrogant and condescending. Especially, considering the fact you were in the same circumstance yourself. The focus of this "crusade" against the Watchtower should not be to berate it's members, but to educate them on what's going on in their religion. I agree with your moms, she is a wise woman. Alway respect ppl and their views. It goes a long way in this world.

  ONE....

  bigboi

  "it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia
• 

  Tina

  Excuse me ustabee,
  Lighten up? There is nothing about the issues I mentioned to be 'light' about. We reach who we can,when we can.
  My husband is a vietvet,that really has nothing to do with the thread. He was never called a babykiller btw.
  Not all 'views' are worthy of respect,now THAt is a generalization.
  I agree the WTS doesn't deserve it,and there are good people among the witnesses. From personal experience,they are not the cream of the crop as 'thinkers'. Too many are naive and gullible. So I have to say there is a general 'dimness' about many of them. If they weren't they'd be out of there.
  If you dont think most are dim,just read some of the posts from Jw defenders and apologists here,lol. Tina
• 

  Ustabee

  Tina:

  The 'lighten up'was meant for folks to just remember that generalizations about people are usually inaccurate. The VN Vet reference was to point out that a lot of Vets were called 'babykillers' and other things, even though they weren't guilty of such atrocities. Victims of 'generalizations.'

  I agree with you completely about the Watchtower leadership. They are ignoring the very tenents they supposedly espouse. The media and a disgusted membership will eventually bring down the whole house of cards. When I read CofC, I promptly wrote Ray Franz a letter apologizing for believing the tripe that was going around about him.

  Yes, many of the Dubs are, shall we say, less than giants intellectually. The Herd Mentality is part of human nature. Ignorance of the facts, whether self induced or otherwise, is not stupidity. Just ignorance. Think about how many r & f Dubs have access to a computer. How many even know how to turn one on? The internet is the source of a tremendous amount of research that allowed me to become aware of just how deceptive the GB has been. Without it, I may never have known the facts. Once I did, I was no longer ignorant.

  Lincoln said, "You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time." One of these days, they'll no longer be able to pull the wool over their eyes.
• 

  Copernicus

  This post seems to be a creative outing, a departure of style -- and among other things, it is satirical, and therefore uses the tropes and conventions of satire. You don't seem to get that, though.

  Hmmmm. . . I guess I didn’t get it either. So that makes at least two of us. In my opinion this “dim” post is not one of Norm’s more particularly shining moments (although he has had MANY). The world is, unfortunately, filled with “dim” people. Conversely, many (in and outside of the WTS) exist to exploit that fact.

  Noam Chomsky (one of my favorite political writers) wrote a phenomenal essay entitled (I think) “Leading the Bewildered Herd” that substantiates the above facts, and explores the wide spread use of propaganda to manipulate people in our society today. Well worth a read.
• 

  dedalus

  One of the first things I learned at my Mother's knee, was to respect other people and their views.

  Well, perhaps it's time to grow up. Do you respect neo-nazis, racists, etc., and their views? Some views aren't worth respecting, nor are the people who hold them.

  Dedalus

  P.S. Sorry Tina, after posting this I saw I pretty much echoed your post. Oops.
• 

  dedalus

  Copernicus,

  Hmmmm. . . I guess I didn’t get it either. So that makes at least two of us. In my opinion this “dim” post is not one of Norm’s more particularly shining moments (although he has had MANY). The world is, unfortunately, filled with “dim” people. Conversely, many (in and outside of the WTS) exist to exploit that fact.

  I agree that it isn't Norm's best post ... and probably Norm wouldn't call it his best post. But I do think that what he's trying to say is pretty accurate, and the rhetorical style employed to that end is appropriate. What I don't see in Norm's post is any claim that Witnesses have a monopoly on "dimness." On the other hand, they do monopolize a peculiar, idiosyncratic "dimness," and sometimes it's great to vent about it. Frankly, I'm surprised Norm is getting the flack he is.

  Noam Chomsky is brilliant; when I was an undergraduate he saved me from B. F. Skinner and a psychology department gone mad with behaviorist theory. Politics, linguistics, psychology, sociology ... is there anything about which Chomsky isn't brilliant?

  Dedalus
• 

  teejay

  However, to brand in a certain way; [e.g., stupid, brain-dead]individual members of any group without even knowing them personally, is the height of presumptuousness.

  I could not agree more, Ustabee. It's easy to generalize about a group of people. That way we don't need to expend any further mental energy to get to know individuals within the group. The problem comes when, for example, saying that the membership of the WTS is dim-witted, stupid, etc.

  That viewpoint fails to take into consideration that there are JW.com posters who, were it not for their regular and insightful participation here, would have all the appearances of those same dim-witted and stupid JWs, and we know that is not the case. While many people continue to attend meetings, give talks, go in service, even serve in positions of authority; that in no way means that they are not as fully aware of the truth about the WTS as the most enlightened of US.

  True wisdom does not lie in judging by outward appearances or making broad, sweeping generalizations. We can't ever say what or how a person thinks about a matter until we talk to them personally.

  tj
• 

  Copernicus

  Dedalus:

  Noam Chomsky is brilliant; when I was an undergraduate he saved me from B. F. Skinner and a psychology department gone mad with behaviorist theory. Politics, linguistics, psychology, sociology ... is there anything about which Chomsky isn't brilliant?

  B. F. Skinner. . . uuuugggghhhh!!! I’m sure you’re familiar with the accounts of what he did to his daughter? That he ever held any serious sway in academic circles should be of concern to compassionate people everywhere.

  And yes, Chomsky IS brilliant. I agree completely with your assessment of him as such. His book, “Manufacturing Consent” is a must read, for ones who want to see the bigger picture. I first caught him by accident while he was giving a speech aired on a public access channel. Had me glued to the tube for 60 minutes. A fascinating thinker, who should be one of the more famous linguists known today. The fact that he isn’t speaks volumes, yes?
• 

  Tina

  (((((((((((Ded)))))))))))))))just wanted to say hi to you and Foxy! Chomsky=Brilliant! luv,T