Wife joining, but I don't want the kids to get all brainwashed

by Check_Your_Premises 51 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Personally, I think the Bible can be used to prove or disprove any number of things. It's all about which scriptures you "read" and which ones you "explain".

  yeah that is the trick isn't it. I want to take some time to look at the scriptures they use, and the explanation the arrive at, and go ahead and list all the other possible explanations I can imagine.

  For instance, they cite some scriptures about the apostles giving out proclamations. This is supposedly proof that God always had an org. The thing is, the scriptures were not complete at that point. The whole reason we had special servants, and prophets back then is because the scriptures were not complete. Then once they were, supposedly people stopped having to power to heal, and prophecy, and speak in tounges.

  Just example. There are many more. Like I said, I need to be able to offer alternative explanaitions.
• 

  M.J.

  Question. Has anyone even heard of an overall POSITIVE environment within a divided JW/non-JW household?
• 

  M.J.

  I need to be able to offer alternative explanaitions.

  For a good first step, I would read "The Truth will set you free" from Randall Watters. Its a good overview of basic orthodox Christian theology explained in such a way to effectively refute every assertion in the knowledge book.

  Also Randy produces "Refuting Jehovah's Witnesses", which provides some more background and is good for a little more in-depth study.

  For a more verse-by-verse specific reference, a helpful one for me was "Reasoning from the Scriptures With Jehovah's Witnesses" by Ron Rhodes. He poses some good questions.
• 

  jules99

  Just a suggestion - does the priest / vicar at your own Church have any ideas? Sometimes they have come across JW's, or they know someone "clever" who you can talk to, to help you refute their arguments.

  My ex-husband (non-JW) would not let me take our son anywhere NEAR a KH when I first got "involved" with them. (Quote - "you take him anywhere near that place or those loonies and I'll take him abroad").

  I am so glad now, even though I was furious at the time (I've wised-up since). My ex used to grill our son to find out what I'd been telling him, so fortunately I daren't tell him much, because I wanted to spare the poor lad (he was only 7 at the time) from his Dad's grillings.

  I'm a teacher and I always think the best thing you can do for the kids is teach them to QUESTION EVERYTHING, especially what teachers tell you, because they're all fruit and nut-cases.....!

  It sounds to me like you are doing all the right things.

  Good Luck and God Bless.

  Jules.
• 

  jwbot

  "For me now the issue is the children. Many have said do not openly or directly oppose, since that will cause problems. But I also don't feel I can let the children be indoctinated into this. I don't mind the information they present, it is all of the mind control techniques that I object to."
  
  Like you said in option 1, going to a different church with you on other sundays-that is a great thing...I great idea. I think if you offer your children an option, they will choose the right one. If you counter (not in a hostile way, but in a wise, open-way) any arguments elders have against other churches or beliefs, or against "worldly people" (you, their friends from school) then they will see both sides. Do not let them ever think you are a bad person and that you (or their worldly friends) will die at armageddon. Let them know about other "nice" beliefs that other religions have, ie: heavan, reincarnation, kharma, etc. Teach them other beliefs that are good.
  
  The thing JWs do to get you, is they first and foremost try to "prove" how other religions beliefs are wrong. You need to counter this and make sure they keep an open mind. This will be so important because they could not possibly see the JWs as the right religion if they are aware of their constant other religion-bashing.
  
  Try a really nice church like the Unitarian/Universal church. Also, perhaps add some Bhuddist philosophy?
  
  I have to say...as a kid, I would have loved to have an "unbelieving" (which is a misnomer-as they might believe something-just a different thing) parent...as I would have done what I could (aside from faking sick) to get out of meetings!!! I would have liked to know that I had an option. MAKE SURE YOUR CHILDREN KNOW THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS!!
• 

  jules99

  Forgot my other idea :-

  Could you make the alternative to KH meetings "good clean fun"?

  I don't know - Gospel singing / anything very noisy / taking a less fortunate or disabled kid out for the day / ...sure you can think of others........

  Things your kids would much rather do, but that the JW's can't really object to without looking petty and small-minded....?

  Suggestions, please?
• 

  what_Truth?

  I think it's a great idea to lay out some ground rules. Just keep in mind that if she doesn't live up to them you HAVE to be willing to grab the children and walk away. Make solid plans on how you will leave. what lawyer you will call, where you will live etc. and hope to God almighty that you never have to go through with it. (It might sound harsh, but think of it the same way you would think of a home fire escape plan).
  
  Also keep in mind that in the end your children might decide to become JW's despite your best efforts. If this happens don't blame yourself. just remember that they have their entire lives to come to their senses and leave. when they do keep the door open for their return.
  
  In all though it sounds like you have a very understanding and reasonable wife. I'm sure things will work out well.
• 

  exjwshell

  Well the point of my strategy was to try to avoid those "tricky" little ways they will have of indoctrinating the kids. Is there something my above described strategy does not cover.

  One particular problem I see is that you mentioned that your wife believes what the jws teach....in that case, she believes that those who do not follow the ways of the jws will be destroyed in armageddon ... wouldn't that mean you?

  I think that any person who truly believes this teaching would fight like heck to keep their family from dying in armageddon.

  I do think you're in a position of power being that you are the "head of the household" but that does not give you authority over what your wife is taught by the jws or what she feels or believes to be true.

  Just my two cents, I guess.

  ~Shell
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  I know my wife will try to do whatever she can to teach the children. I guess I am still unsure exactly what the boundaries are. If I join another church, I don't want her teaching the kids that I am in satans org and I am going to die in armageddon, just like she doesn't want me saying, jws are a cult.

  There is an idea I am trying to articulate here, but can't quite capture. I know jws think they are the only ones with truth, so they can't imagine another way. But I want her to show respect to the fact that I might want to believe another way. I don't want her or anyone else using ad hominem, or labels to disqualify my "alternative" outright. Just as she does not want me to tell the kids "mommy is crazy and in a cult". I know part of her beliefs is that other churches will be destroyed in armageddon. But I don't want her to say that. I want her to say, "we believe other churches will be destroyed". I have no problem with that.

  It is the difference between presenting the information as belief or as fact. I want all religious matters to be presented as beliefs, and have it be left to the individual to decide what is fact. A, "I wont scream cult if she wont call me the devils agent" kind of thing. At least for the time being.

  So I guess until I get a good handle on how things will work, I only want us to discuss religious matters with the kids while we are both present. Also I would prefer we talk about it first so it doesn't degenerate into an argument right in front of them. I want them to see healthy, reasonable discussions.
• 

  Hondo

  Check_Your_Premises

  I hate to rain on you party, to an extent, but I tried a lot of the things you are about to. It did not work out too well. I am not a JW, but have known about them and their destructive practices since I was about 10 years old (A family I delivered the newpaper to way back when were JW's. I knew the daughter pretty well. Long story short, she eventually died because of the blood issue. This bothered me then and still does to this day). Anyway, My wife decided to go out on her own and join the JW's. The kids (son and daughter now grown and not JW's) and I attended a christian church regularly, without wife/mother, although she was invited to accompany us.

  The door knocker visited while I was at sea (I am Navy retired) and kids were in school, and the rest is history. I did the "really try to understand and love her" bit for awhile. Our marriage was taking hits because of her involvement so we made a contract of sorts between us stating that our relationship and family was first and formost and we should make these work before anything else, even religion; We both agreed explicitly. It seemed to work ok for awhile. She missed some meetings and some service door-to-door to engage in time with me, on occasion, and to do things with the family...normal people family stuff. This did not last long. After missing too many meetings she started getting the phone calls, from elders I suppose. Our "contract" all of a sudden became null and void. Our marriage, and family for the most part, became secondary to her involvement with the JW's and the Watchtower. From this point on it pretty much went downhill. We argued a lot. She explained to me that she would not be able to live in her paradise on earth because she was not as active as she should be. And on, and on, and on...

  I made the mistake of playing "bible ping pong" with her. Although I could difinitively show that she was wrong on many doctrines, I could not break here out of the JW/Watchtower paradigm she was in. They had/have her packaged and wrapped very well and she listened and took counsel from them without question, and of course still does. She is/was still close to the children (they see the loonacy in the organization and refuse any involvement, thank God), but as a husband I felt I had become just an object in her life; a very lonely feeling. I felt she divorced me, in a sense, when she first joined and started her study and attending meetings. Her new partner, and new relationship, had now become the JW's and Watchtower.

  Anyway, after 20 years of marriage we were divorced. Although I did the paperwork, she was elated. I probably would have done a lot of things differently when I found out of her initial involvement (she kept this a secret from me. I did not find out about her attending meetings, etc., until about 6 months after her first contact), although I believe we still would have eventually divorced. She lived/lives for the Watchtower Society and nothing else, this was/is very evident. What is sad, is that before her involvement we were as close as a couple could be. I loved her dearly, and still do.