What's wrong w/JW's?

by GodRules 58 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Billygoat

  I honestly feel that most - most being the keyword - JW's are good people. They just can't think for themselves. I remember my JW father criticizing people that don't question what religion they're brought up in. That most people just take what's given to them. Funny I think...that I questioned what I was brought up in and told to keep quiet.

  My biggest beef is that they claim to be the one and only True Religion and say that living what they preach is what makes them stand apart. I've seen more hypocrisy in every Kingdom Hall than any other Christian church I've ever been to. Someone can tell me all day long what they feel is right. But to me, proof is in the pudding. I don't listen to words anymore. I look at actions. I see more actions in "Christendom" than in the WTS.

  Billygoat
• 

  nytelecom1

  uhh GodRules...from one dub to another..the Blood issue is not as cut and dry..frankly many in my cong dont understand it and some dont agree with it...the fact that my cong is in the vicinity of Bethel doesnt hurt either..I seriously wonder how much "help" the WTS has given to the medical community regarding the Blood issue...Last time I was at Bethel, I didnt notice any LAB's. The fact that the medical community has come up with alternative solutions is hardly evidence of Jehovah's approval of this policy.
  
  Granted humans do make mistakes. Esp when related to Jehovahs service...but the fact the the WTS has failed to admit these is clearly a pattern. We are told to seek Gods kingdom first..to preach the truth to the nations...but when this truth changes, when you question "truth".. sooner or later the boys will rebel....
  as my fav lyricist said

  "something has to change...undeniable dilema".....Maynard james Keenan
• 

  GodRules

  I understand that the blood issue is complicated. What I meant with my statement is that a straight-forward blood transfusion as I understand it would not be approved by Jehovah. The statement "it might save your life" can be argued indefinately. It could, it might or it might not. I'll stick to Jehovah's recommendation, thank you. In regards to the blood fragments, I realize that it is very complicated. Of course, I am thankful to the doctors and scientists that find new ways to keep us healthy and try to prolong life. As complicated as is, the WTS tries to adapt to the new changes. Experimental ways of treating certain diseases that were very unsafe, say about 10 or 15 years ago, could be safe now. As the Hospital Liasion Committees understand and investigate new procedures, there will be new advice on these topics.

  Dedalus: I have also wondered on the topic you brought up about children. That one is up to Jehovah, we don't know exactly what he will do. I have faith that he will do the right thing.

  Billygoat: You accusation about hypocrisy is only your point of view. I doubt that you have examined each and every congregation in the world. Is there some hipocrisy within some of the members, of course! Bad elements infiltrate any organization.

  In regards to the dumb example that other religions are also composed of imperfect men. Well, that is true, but the thing is what do they teach about basic doctrine? Are they teaching completely false ideas like the trinity, hellfire, infant baptism, once saved always saved, just accept Jesus and that's it?

  What about accepting responsability about false predictions? Witnesses accept that. You can go up to Governing Body member and ask "was there a false prediction about 1914, 1925, 1925 or whatever" and they will answer "yes." Is this a reason to just lose all hope, stop preaching the good new of the Kingdom and stop following in Jesus' steps? Of course not. In many publications such as the Watchtower and the Proclaimers book, the WTS accepts that some if it's leaders have gotten out of hand when pointing to a specific year. What else do you want?
• 

  AlanF

  Well there, GodRules, if you don't want to be confused by facts, then there's not much anyone can say to you. But I'll give it a try.

  One thing very much wrong with the JW organization is that it often publishes misleading information, and sometimes even out and out lies. Along with this, when people inform them of these things, most of the time the Society ignores the criticisms, and so the lies stand or the possibly inadvertant mistakes become lies, since when someone is informed of a mistake and he refuses to correct it, it becomes a deliberate error.

  For example, in 1992 I completed extensive research on the source references in the 1985 Creation book. I wrote a long piece detailing the misunderstandings, misrepresentations and flat-out lies in the book. I wrote four letters to the Society informing them of a few specifics. They never even acknowledged the letters. Over the next few years I found that others had written similar letters to the Society asking them to correct mistakes, all with the same response -- nothing happened. Sometimes a reply was received but it was invariably the same: "We don't think there is a problem."

  In 1997 I managed to meet with the Society's author (compiler, really) of the book, one Harry Peloyan, of the Writing Department. Peloyan is also the chief editor and head of production for Awake! magazine. As soon as he found out that I was going to offer some criticisms of his book, Peloyan became hostile and, instead of listening to criticisms, he attacked me. He accused me of being a nasty evolutionist and said that was why I was criticizing his book. Eventually he calmed down enough to listen to one criticism, and he even admitted that there might be a small problem, but said that it wasn't worth anyone's time to correct it. Besides, he said, the more important point of the book -- building confidence in the Creator -- was not affected by errors in the book. Well of course, his opinion on that is just plain stupid. How can you build confidence in the Creator by telling lies? Peloyan's attitude of "we're working for God, so how dare you criticize us?" is absolutely typical of other JW leaders. That's why they don't correct their errors when outsiders point them out. Rather than being humble, they're supremely arrogant. After all, they speak for God.

  For a detailed look at the stupidities in the Creation book, see the essay "The WTS View of Creation and Evolution" here:
  http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/index2.htm
  The essay points out about 100 errors in the book, especially ones that are obvious deliberate misrepresentations.

  Now I'm going to go a teensy way out on a limb here, GodRules. I'm going to predict that you won't respond substantitvely to anything in my post. I hope you prove me wrong.

  AlanF
• 

  GodRules

  AlanF: Your opinions on the book "Creation" is just that, you opinions. I compare your views to those of "Siskel and Ebert" or whatever it's called now. They review movies and some of the movies they choose to hate are the movies that I love. Oh, they will give their reasons and some might sound logical, but when I watch the movie I don't see what they see. Maybe they try to see the acting or whatever, and I see it in a simpler way. The point is they have their opinions and I have mine.

  The same with this book. You have your opinions, but the brother you spoke to from Bethel is right. The point of the book is that Evolution is just a theory and that the universe, earth, our bodies prove that we have a creator.
• 

  bboyneko

  THe medical community has found alternative non-blood treatments not because ot the JW's but because blood is expensiver, spcarse and can transmit diseases, although very very rarely. Alternative blood treatemnts, including artifical blood would solve the scarcity, expense and risk factor. JW's are giving themselves too much credit, they are merely a tiny footnote in the medical communities quest to find alternate blood treatements. The news of a patient receiving a completley artifical heart went all over the world. THey are also trying to find artifical organs for the exact same reasons. Now if the JW's beleived organ transplants are cannibalism as they used to before 1980, they would probably give themselves credit for that artificial heart.

  The arrogance is truley astounding.
  -Dan
• 

  dedalus

  Oh Godrules!

  Dedalus: I have also wondered on the topic you brought up about children. That one is up to Jehovah, we don't know exactly what he will do. I have faith that he will do the right thing.

  We do know exactly what he will do, 'cause the Watchtower said what he's gonna do! And the Watchtower is God's great big bullhorn! Consider these quotes, Godrules, and tell me what you think, particularly given my former quotes about the destruction of children:

  To feed or teach his people the Lord has used the Watch Tower publications ... No man is given any credit for the wonderful truths which the Lord has revealed to his people through the Watch Tower publications. – Watchtower 12/1/33, p. 263.

  The Watchtower does not consist of men's opinions. – Watchtower 1/1/42, p. 5.

  Christ Jesus has caused the understanding of the prophetic dramas and pictures to be clear and set forth in the Watchtower publications. – Watchtower 12/15/42 p. 376.

  If we have love for Jehovah and for the organization of his people we shall not be suspicious, but shall, as the Bible says, ‘believe all things,’ all the things that The Watchtower brings out. – Qualified To Be Ministers 1955, 1967, p. 156.

  As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first-century Christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying on an intensified and unparalleled scale. All this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it. .... The holy spirit of Jehovah is working mightily today! How thankful we should be for the provision God has made of this slave class, the modern spiritual remnant, as they faithfully dispense the revealed truths of Jehovah! With these rich truths

  to light the way, Christians do not grope in this dark, jungle-like world as do the masses of people in Christendom and heathendom alike. – Watchtower 6/15/64, p. 365-6.

  Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah's organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God's holy spirit or active force. (Zech. 4:6) Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book ... How very much true Christians appreciate associating with the only organization on earth that understands the ‘deep things of God’! – Watchtower 7/1/73, p. 402.

  You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah's Witnesses. – Awake 6/8/86, p. 9.

  So what say you, Godrules? There's nothing for you to "wonder" about -- this matter is very, very clear! This is not a "wait on Jehovah" situation. Could it be that there is something wrong with Jehovah's Witnesses after all? Perhaps the fact that they unequivocally support the slaughter of billions of children?

  Don't shrug this off with a petty "I'm sure Jehovah will do the right thing" excuse. Something as serious as the death of children deserves more attention. Either you disagree with the position of the Organization, or you think 99.9% of preschoolers should die.

  Dedalus
• 

  ianao

  In regards to the dumb example that other religions are also composed of imperfect men. Well, that is true, but the thing is what do they teach about basic doctrine? Are they teaching completely false ideas like the trinity, hellfire, infant baptism, once saved always saved, just accept Jesus and that's it?

  Many of those "other religions" can show you exactly why they teach what they teach, and why what you consider basic doctrine and what they consider basic doctrine are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. It always comes down to interpretation and OPINION. These other religions don't teach 1914, FDS and a limited covenant with Jesus, but yours does.

  How many pastors/ministers have you personally listened to anyway? (listened == sincerely listened, not waiting for the next chance to control the discussion). Do you know for a FACT that ALL other religions teach the concepts you mentioned? No. You are ASSuming something that you shouldn't be ASSuming.

  This idea of (if they don't teach what I as a witness was taught, then they are full of crap) is just as dogmatic coming from you as it is from the "other religious" person stating their case to you.
• 

  AlanF

  I knew it, GodRules: you're just a typical friggin' braindead JW dork. You didn't read anything in that essay, so you're talking through your ass. You shoot from the hip as if you know what you're yapping about.

  The fact is, what is in my essay is not mere opinion. It contains direct comparisons between what the JW author wrote about source references and what the source references actually said. It points out where the JW author went wrong.

  Of course, we all know that you're too afraid to actually deal with those facts, so you cavalierly dismiss them in the stereotypical way.

  Actually GodRules, perhaps the worst thing wrong with the JWs is that they produce braindead people like you who are terrified of facts. People who claim to love truth -- the facts -- but run like hell when confronted with them.

  I hope that one day the leaders of La-La-Land kick you in the face, as they've done with so many others, and wake you up. You're obviously too asleep to do it on your own.

  AlanF
• 

  dedalus

  Godrules,

  After a moment's reflection, it occurs to me you are a hypocrite. In the beginning of the thread you wrote:

  Please use facts not personal opinions.

  I proceeded to give you factual quotes proving that Witnesses teach that all non-Witness children will be killed.

  You responded:

  I have also wondered on the topic you brought up about children. That one is up to Jehovah, we don't know exactly what he will do. I have faith that he will do the right thing.

  Hey, I thought we were supposed to use facts, not personal opinions? Well, fart into the wind all you want, Godrules -- I used facts to prove something that's wrong with Jehovah's Witnesses, and you didn't have an answer that fit the requirements you yourself established.

  Dedalus