What's wrong w/JW's?

by GodRules 58 Replies latest jw friends

  • Billygoat
    Billygoat

    GodRules,

    You'll notice that the first sentence of my earlier post says my opinion of JW in general:

    "I honestly feel that most - most being the keyword - JW's are good people. "

    My comments are general and of course they're coming from my experience. (Whose experience was I supposed to base them on??? Duh.) I do believe there are heartfelt, genuinely good JW's out there - I was friends with many and I feel I was one of them. But the majority of the hypocrisy I saw was within the leadership of the congregations I was in. From age 8 to age 19 I was in six different congregations. Within each congregation I "witnessed" hypocrisy in the local eldership. After hearing other people's story it SEEMS that others have experienced the same thing.

    I stand by my statement...I'VE WITNESSED more hypocrisy in the Kingdom Halls than in the "Christendom" churches I've attended. Notice I didn't say I was stating fact - only God knows that for sure. I was stating what I'VE WITNESSED.

    What I've also WITNESSED is that when my church has made a mistake, it admits it. It's publicly apologized and humbly taken it's hits because of it. When the WTS "adapts to change" as you put it, do they apologize for having believed incorrectly? Have they tried to make amends to those that the former beliefs have harmed? If you can prove to me where the WTS has EVER apologized for teaching incorrect information, I'll take back this comment.

    Billygoat

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    There's just one problem with the argument that the organization is fine and scriptural and any problems can be justified by human imperfection. Jesus himself said "by their fruits you will recognize them." Mt 7:15-23 This seems to be completely ignored.

    "Knowing others is wisdom. Knowing the self is insight. Mastering others requires force. Mastering the self requires true strength." -Tao Te Ching, Chapter 33

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    GR,

    You still didn't take back your lie!!!!

    In your first statement you said:

    The blood issue is not inconsistent and misleading. No blood transfussions.

    Then you said after being pressed:

    I understand that the blood issue is complicated.

    Lets get down to the nitty gritty of death. For years the WTS tells the flock how they have been protected from AIDs and other diseases.

    So lets look at hemophilicas. They took a beating in the 1970s and 1980s because the Factor VII & IX solutions made from human blood contained those diseases.

    So where was the WTS on the issue in 1978 (verbally 1975) - Factors VIII & IX were approved to be used!!!! They also approve organ tansplants in the 1980s which also carried a risk of getting these diseases.

    So much for protecting the flock but they still like to tell the world different!!!

    Admit to this board you lied and apolgize.

    hawk

  • stephenw20
    stephenw20

    GR...
    I am beginning to get an idea you might write for the watchtower . I say this to support Billgoats position and to show you your own

    you write" Please use facts not personal opinions."

    AlanF: Your opinions on the book "Creation" is just that, you opinions. I compare your views to those of "Siskel and Ebert" or whatever it's called now. They review movies and some of the movies they choose to hate are the movies that I love. Oh, they will give their reasons and some might sound logical, <This is the good part>

    but when <I> watch the movie I don't see what they see. Maybe they try to see the acting or whatever, and I see it in a simpler way. The point is they have their opinions and I have mine.

    Wonderful ok terrific!

    The same with this book. You have your opinions, but the brother you spoke to from Bethel is right. The point of the book is that Evolution is just a theory and that the universe, earth, our bodies prove that we have a creator

    A theory to you perhaps a belief to many others.....I don't believe in evolution myself..but that is hardly the point......'

    why would you invite no opinion yet share your own?

    On another thread I posted a response to you specifically which was void from opinion as it was a court transcript form the Olin Moyle trial indicating unity is more important than truth. The testifiers were Fred Franz Covington and Knoor.

    THis my friend would be considered fact. It was transcribed in a court of law. Is there any item in it you dispute . please elaborate on it.

    Other wise Please spend more time researching for your self why the JWS don't have what they try to sell. And when your done share it with us.

    Have a wonderful day!

  • Latte
    Latte

    GodRules,

    One of the BIG Bragg’s of the GB is that they are guided by Jehovah.
    Quote W/T 1960 P.444 Para.19.

    ****Yes, the “Faithful and discreet slave” was awake to the coming of 1914. In 1942 the “faithful and discreet slave” guided byJehovah’s unerring spirit ……**** ( This is one of many such comments, as I’m sure that your aware)

    I find such statements as the above, to be disgustingly presumptuous. How do you think God feels about such statements? What a fool they make him look! How dare they say such things, all the while feeling that they have his approval. They make him look a liar, and a God of disorder.

    Here are just a few accounts for you to consider. I’m quite sure that you can think of others yourself.

    *** w91 10/1 16-17 Make Jehovah's Everlasting Arms Your Support ***
    Help When We Err
    15 Though we love Jehovah’s law, we err at times. This no doubt distresses us, as it did David, to whom God’s laws, reminders, orders, and judicial decisions were more desirable than gold. He said: “Your own servant has been warned by them; in the keeping of them there is a large reward. Mistakes—who can discern? From concealed sins pronounce me innocent. Also from presumptuous acts hold your servant back; do not let them dominate me. In that case I shall be complete, and I shall have remained innocent from much transgression.” (Psalm 19:7-13) Let us analyze these words.
    16 Presumptuous acts are much more serious sins than mistakes. Saul was rejected as king for presumptuously offering sacrifice and for sparing Amalekite king Agag and the best spoil, though God had commanded that the Amalekites be devoted to destruction. (1 Samuel 13:8-14; 15:8-19) King Uzziah was stricken with leprosy for presumptuously seizing priestly duties. (2 Chronicles 26:16-21) When the ark of the covenant was being taken to Jerusalem and the cattle drawing the cart nearly caused an upset, God struck Uzzah dead for irreverently grabbing hold of the Ark to steady it. (2 Samuel 6:6, 7)So, if we do not know what to do or whether we are authorized to do something, we should display modesty and consult those having discernment. (Proverbs 11:2; 13:10) Of course, if we have ever been presumptuous, we should pray for forgiveness and ask God to help us guard against presumptuousness in the future.

    *** w88 3/15 19 Serving as Jehovah's Trusting Fellow Workers ***
    15 ‘Placing a moderate estimate on our abilities or worth’ is the apparent meaning we should attach to the Hebrew word rendered “modest” at Micah 6:8. This is evident from the way the word is used in its only other occurrence in the Hebrew Scriptures. At Proverbs 11:2 it is contrasted not with sexual uncleanness but with presumptuousness, which results from thinking too highly of oneself. There we read: “Has presumptuousness come? Then dishonor will come; but wisdom is with the modest ones.” Being modest goes hand in hand with having the fear of Jehovah, which is also associated with wisdom. (Psalm 111:10) A modest person has the fear of Jehovah because he realizes what a great difference there is between him and God, between Jehovah’s righteousness and power and his own imperfection and weaknesses. Therefore, the modest person works out his salvation with fear and trembling.—Philippians 2:12.

    Yes GodRules!

    Latte

  • individual
    individual

    Godrules
    What about the fact that the main doctrine of christs parousia of 1914 is based on 607BCE which has been proved beyond doubt to be an incorrect date. Their steadfast refusal to change shows their lack of a love of truth, they are more worried of the consequences of a change.
    What about all those WT and Awakes on the generation of 1914 that will never die ,only changed when their promises and doctrines had failed, and not changed before. If God was truly behind them surely they would have seen their error before time ran out. Things only change when they encounter difficulties.
    What about the biggest sign of a true religion, the love they have amongst themselves, distinctly lacking in the JWs.
    What about the fact that the governing body votes on doctrinal issues. If the vote is less than two thirds than a resolution for a change in policy is not passed even if the majority want that change. Surely if Jehovah was behind them he would ensure unity at the top.
    And finally, their lack of reliance on Jehovah, they rely more on continual reminders on how one can donate, talks on this at assemblies were particularly annoying.

  • BERNARD
    BERNARD

    If you are a sincere bible reader Jesus always answered a Question with a Question to get the facts straight.

    If you are a christian you are a follerw of christ correct ?

    Did jesus form an organization ?
    Did jesus ever disfellowship anybody or shun them for any reason for that matter ?
    Did jesus give dates and what did he warn about the false prophet ?
    Did jesus give any indication about blood transfusions ?

    These are facts to a true Christian not a follower of men Interpretations. The QUETION SHOULD BE ARE JEHOVAH WITNESSES TRULY FOLLERS OF CHRIST OR MEN BASED ON YOUR STUDY OF JESUS CHRIST TEACHINGS ? I'LL AWAIT YOUR ANSWER FROM A TRUE CHRISTIAN STANDPOINT ?

    THE REAL TRUTH STANDS THE TEST OF TIME, IT WILL NOT CHANGE, IF IT DOES ITS A LIE.The sun will rise, The sun will set,AN EXAMPLE of The real TRUTH nobody can change.

  • WhyNow2000
    WhyNow2000

    <<I would sincerely like to know what is so wrong with Jehovah's Witnesses>>

    In relationship to what????...blood, dates, df(opps sorry we can't go there). Please enlighten me.

  • LovesDubs
    LovesDubs

    GodRules: We can all feel the tight defensive posture you are in when you write...throwing down the gauntlet, daring us to DEFY the Organization. But then you make a list of the things you DONT want to discuss? My guess is that you DO doubt those policies and are perhaps looking for more. So...I will oblige you.

    The Society has the answers to ALL scenarios in order to cover ALL bases. If when you start to study, your life goes in the crapper, the JWs will tell you that Satan is persecuting you for studying. If when you start to study, your life becomes great all of a sudden, the JWs will tell you Jehovah is blessing your study.

    The Same is true for the counting of the witnesses the society publishes every January. If the numbers are going UP then JEHOVAH IS BLESSING THE PREACHING WORK IS OPENING UP MORE AND MORE TERRITORY. But if the numbers are going DOWN..which they are now, the Society immediately yanks out a scripture and says LOOK!! its FULFILLMENT OF PROPHECY! The love of the GREATER NUMBER is cooling off! and LOOK!! The bible says the road to paradise is NARROW so....that must mean that only a FEW can go down it and those who are leaving Jehovah is doing the separating work! blah blah blah....

    When the Society lost its law suit against the government charging taxes on the sale of religious literature, when they filed as a Friend of the Court with Jimmy Swagart ministries, they immediately had a SPECIAL MEETING and had the entire freakin world all EXCITED about this GREAT REVELATION from GAWD during which they announced that they would no longer be charging for literature to "simplify the ministry." Did they mention the lost lawsuit? No they sure didnt. Did they stop charging in ALL the countries, UNIFIED as they claim to be? No they did not.

    When there is a catastrophe somewhere in the world, all the JWs are concerned about are the JWs involved. No prayers are sent forth for anyone else who died or whose home was destroyed. No call goes out to help anybody else but the "brothers". And yet this same group claims to live life as Christs Footstep Followers? Was it not Christ who put forth the illustration of the Good Samaritan? The Watch Tower Society is selfish, self involved, self righteous and blasphemous.

    They claim that God appointed them his Prophet. They claim to be Gods Mouthpiece. They claim not to be inspired and yet...the Insight book says that Prophets are "spokesmen for God with inspired messages." So...when they PREDICT the end of the world or the RESSURECTION OF ABRAHAM ISAAC AND JACOB IN 1925, and actually put the DEED TO A PROPERTY in the names of those dead men, and then it DOESNT HAPPEN...do they admit they are FALSE PROPHETS??? No..they do not. They claim only to have "new light" or "new understanding" or like in 1975 they BLAME the entire worldwide brotherhood for "making it all up." Taking absolutely no responsibility for ruining countless thousands of lives in the process. Never said the world would end in 1975? Ok...then explain to me how hundreds of thousands, nay MILLIONS of JWs around the world, came to the exact same conclusion about the exact same date at the exact same time? Thats a big freakin miracle that somebody overlooked Id say.

    They say that "new light" never contradicts or REPLACES old light...and yet..they have not only RETRACTED new light on subjects, but have RETURNED TO THE OLD LIGHT, and then once again gone to the old NEW LIGHT version, then back to the OLD light again... and you can sit there and tell us that Jehovah is giving them this INSIGHT? Or is Jehovah FICKLE? Is Jehovah SENILE? Does Jehovah give BAD INFORMATION to his PROPHETS?? "Ours is the god of TRUE PROPHECY...WHAT HE FORTELLS COMES TO BE" Im sure you are familiar with that tune. Either you speak for God or you dont..you cant have it both ways when you screw up.

    Either you are Gods Chosen or you arent. You cant continually say that JWS are "imperfect" and then at the same exact moment claim that YOU and YOU ALONE will be in the paradise. You cannot claim that only GOD knows who will be in paradise, and then in the EXACT same article say that ONLY JWS will be in paradise. Its called LIEING.

    If there are over 7,000 members of the annointed remnant, also known as the Faithful and Discrete Slave Class from whom you receive your spiritual food at the proper time...how come only 12 of them get new light? How come those who WRITE THE FOOD for the other 6 million sheep ARENT EVEN ANNOINTED?? How come all 7000 arent getting their share of this so-called FOOD? Why dont the Governing Body have any interest whatsoever in what the other 6,988 annointed have to say? And why in hell arent there any WOMEN being asked for their spiritual food contributions when there are WOMEN in that annointed class and God has provided for WOMEN to be prophetesses?

    Why can JWs bribe officials in Mexico to get out of the military and in Malawi the JWs get KILLED and worse for not joining the military and the Society does nothing?

    Where EXACTLY does it say that going door to door HOUSE OVER HOUSE OVER HOUSE is the only way to preach? Where does it say that JESUS himself EVER did that since you claim to follow his example? The bible says at Luke 10: 7 DO NOT BE GOING FROM HOUSE TO HOUSE. How do you account for that contradiction?

    Where in the bible does it say that you must keep track of your time in service in order to be ACCEPTABLE to others in the congregation? What happened to the widows might? Where does it say in the bible that you cannot QUESTION what the Society says...even tho they claim NOT to be inspired and then say they speak for God, then they screw up and say they are imperfect? Even Peter who got handed the keys to the kingdom QUESTIONED THINGS. The Boreans were held as an EXAMPLE of what to do when presented with things supposedly biblical. QUESTION THEM AND TEST THEM TO SEE IF THEY ARE TRUE. Are JWs encouraged to TEST what is in the Watch Tower?? Most certainly they are not!! ONe must not USE INDEPENDENT THINKING, ONE MUST NOT RUN AHEAD OF THE SOCIETY, ONE MUST NOT BECOME A STUMBLING BLOCK TO THE BROTHERS BY QUESTIONING, ONE MUST NOT SO MUCH AS FROWN AS TO INDICATE A DISAGREEMENT IN A TALK, ONE MUST NOT VOICE OPPOSITION OR DISCORDANCE FROM WHAT IS SAID FROM THE PLATFORM OR THE LITERATURE...TO DO SO WOULD BE APOSTATE.

    Yet...the Society regularly changes its OWN BELIEFS under the guise of "new light" and "current understanding" and yet severely criticizes the religions like the Mormons who do EXACTLY THE SAME THING. They severely criticize the Catholics for harboring pedophiles and they DO EXACTL THE SAME THING.

    I will stop there...Im sure others can add hundreds to this list. But unless you are willing to remove your blinders...you will seen none of this. And a blind guide you will remain.

  • reagan_oconnor
    reagan_oconnor

    Hear that?
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    ...that's right... the sound of <crickets> from the GodRules corner!

    "ask and ye shall receive..."

    Reagan


    I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul.

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