Move on... (page 19)

Country_Woman

Suppose you lived in a poor country, you and your family were really very poor and couldn't make ends meet. Would the thought ever cross your mind to 'immigrate' to a place where you could make a better living for yourself, and where your kids could have an education, and perhaps a future?

Fairchild, I don't blame anybody who is trying to make a better living for themselves. I would do the same. Just normal behaviour. As you know their are lots of "foreigners" over here: Chinese, Vietnams. These last group makes their own living: they are all hard working people (haven't heard of a single person in this group living from welfare)

Some background information. What Viv mentioned was people from Suriname and the Antilles who came here, don't work at all, live here for more then 20 years and still don't talk Dutch. Then sometimes go back to the Antilles and they still get their welfare money. (Not every one coming from their ofcourse) Morrocon and Turkish people are in the highest occupational rate here - and that is NOT due to real ailments. (3 allochtone to 1 autochtone) we know of whole families only living from welfare, who are going each year for a month to their homeland on holidays (lots of them claimed to be fugitives in danger for their lives and they are going on holidays to their homelands)

At the moment our government is positively discriminating: when you apply for a job with the government or local authorities, given the fact that 2 persons are applying - each with al that is acquired for the job. One is autochtone Dutch and the other is allochtone, the Dutch won't get the job.

That happened to Viv several times, even while her papers were much better...... what is worse it is admitted. Else you could think that your qualifications are not good enough--- but it ain't the best man on the spot any longer here... She was applying at the University Library (already working there with a \emplyment agency) her supervisor wanted and choosed her for the job - (she was overqualified) but an autochtone (Suriname) got the job. at least 3 times. go figure.

mrsjones5

I'd rather be hired because I was the best at what I do rather than to fill a quota.

Josie

Country_Woman

Josie you are right: that is given the most resistance at the moment. that it is all about politics.

Country_Woman

Fairchild, being a "foreigner" did happen to me and my family too....... in our own country.

We start living on the island Goeree-Overflakkee (more then 45 years ago) and we still are "overkanters" from the overside of the river....

We only did'nt suffer hostality.....

I am sorry that that happened to you.

bikerchic

I'm actually sort of impressed that this topic has gone along with real potential for a war and yet, while emotional, been controlled and even thoughtful. Especially considering how it started.
Good work folks!

confusedjw I totally agree with what you said and would like add that as I've watched this thread unfold I was very impressed at how everyone discussed their differences without coming to blows.

Maybe we could put this thread in the Best Of section as an example of how easily we can rectify a misunderstanding without loosing a eye.

Many thanks to everyone who participated in this thread, my hats off to all of you!

Kate

fairchild

CW, I certainly am familiar with the situation over in your corner of the world. There will always be honest people who try to make a living by hard working, and there will always be people who prefer to milk out the system without lifting a finger, and they will be the first ones to bitch about the system. In this case, I am talking about citizens and foreigners alike, of any country..

Immigration always has been and always will be a problem anywhere. I spent my college years in the city of Gent (Belgium), where I was a member of a movement that worked towards solving issues between the Turkish and the Flemish people. We can beat this horse to death, but after we're done, the problem is still going to be there.

We start living on the island Goeree-Overflakkee (more then 45 years ago) and we still are "overkanters" from the overside of the river....

Hmm.. never heard of that place. I grew up on the island of Walcheren. You're out of luck, especially on an island, people are very protective of 'their land', at least that is my general experience (with exception of the island Kriti (Greece), where I lived as well.

people from Suriname and the Antilles who came here, don't work at all, live here for more then 20 years and still don't talk Dutch.

Something like this never fails to make me mad. If you are going to live in a foreign country, at least be respectful enough to learn the language. If you don't learn the language, you are showing that you are not interested in integrating yourself in society to say the least. I know a woman from Germany who has been here for FORTY years and she STILL doesn't speak English. If you want my opinion on this, I think it is rude, really rude and no matter how hard I try, I can't find it in my heart to have respect for people like that. I speak several languages and I'm not exactly the brightest bulb around.. take this from me, when you are exposed to a language on a daily basis, and you don't end up speaking that language, it can only mean one thing.. refusal to learn.

Vivamus

Although I can understand where you're coming from (and you made some good points in your post), do think about the following. Suppose you lived in a poor country, you and your family were really very poor and couldn't make ends meet. Would the thought ever cross your mind to 'immigrate' to a place where you could make a better living for yourself, and where your kids could have an education, and perhaps a future? When all is said and done, both sides of the fence are tough to be on.

My mum already kinda of responded to this one ... Daily i meet people from, for example, Turkey, who lived here for say 20 years, living on welfare and not speaking a single Dutch word. Excuse me, but if I had control over that, I'd ship them right back to where they came from. To stress my point, a few weeks ago a Turkish girl came to my shop for a mobile phone on her 18th birthday. Nice girl, no head coverings, speaking perfect, with a Rotterdam accent, Dutch. 3 Hours later her mum came, loving the phone wanting it for herself. Great woman, laughing, joking, wearing head covering but speaking pefect Dutch. And afterwards her father, kind man, working and speaking perfect Dutch. I was flabbergasted and practically wanted to nominate them for a statue. Now, my reaction to them is actually what pisses me off ..... cuz each and every one coming to this country should be like that. But fact of the matter is that that family was an exeption to the general rule i.g. don't speak Dutch, build your own churches and shops, do not look kindly at when natives walk through your streets etc. I no longer feel safe in my own country cuz of Islam and the excesses of Islam. In my own country ... For excesses of Islam google for Theo van Gogh for an example.

If i was poor and changeless ... quite possibly I would immigrate. But most definatly I'd respect the ways of the country I would be living in, learn the languege and find me a job.

Vivamus

Btw, what my ancestors did is as follows ... Slaves from the slavery period were shipped to Suriname and The Antillen, both where colonies we ruled. When Suriname got back her independence in 1975 the Dutch govermnent saw it as her responsibility to redeem herself and started payments for the rebuilt of that country. The Antillen, still a part of the Netherlands also get a lot of payments from us. People from those two parts can come to Holland without a visa, and can start to work and live here without so much as a by your leave from our side. Reality is that a lot of them do just that, only the work part of " work and live" seems to illude them. People from the Antillen are considered one of the major groups of trouble makers in the cities. I personally have a strong dislike towards them cuz the knowcked my cousin unconsious and in the hospital for weeks. Yes I generalize, and am probably a tad racist, but you should live and experience it to understand me. I cannot walk the streets in places that were considered fun parts of the city, cuz I'll be looked away at daylight, and robbed and raped at night.

In the 60's and 70's our country also was in need of employment, and so we welcomed those from Turkey and elswhere to come and work here. Many did. I have no problem with them, they worked, build up there social rights and enjoyed life. Even though the plan of the govenrment was that they would leave in say 5 year, most decided to stay. Again, no problem with that, as long as they work and abide by the rules. What I do have a problem with is that their entire families came here, who did not work, but profited of our social welfare. I have a problem with Turkish young man stating bland in newspapers that they wouild never marry dutch girls cuz they are whores and you can bed them whenever you as much wink at them. I have a problem with the same young men, who then get a girl from their own country, non-educated and marry that girl, only to keep her in the house and not let that same girl integrate. I have a problem with this, since it caused whole parts of the cities to become a colony of these people.

LittleToe

So I can understand that people have issues over flavour of jello, but does anyone have a favourite colour?
Green lime is my current tops

Scots are usually discrininated for.
The only place they are discriminated against is in some parts of England, though we do have our own inter-clan thing going on, too.

I sometimes wonder if there isn't a whole "genetic memory" thing going on, too. There certainly seem to be long-lived antagonisms held, over the excesses that combined into the history of the USA.

Crumpet

The only place they are discriminated against is in some parts of England,

"some" Little Toe? where in England aren't they?

Move on...

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