Most of Jesus' biography was plagiarized from ancient pagan gods.
Actually, more like plagiarized from the OT.
Did a man called Jesus Christ walk the earth?
by stillajwexelder 33 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Leolaia
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LittleToe
First things first, I want to address something of this that I had thought to start a thread on.
Many on this board would state that "God is within", or we are part of "God", or part of a single consciousness (Jung), or "children of God", some even declaring that they are "God". Many hold back, perhaps due to a fear of community reaction to statements akin to "thou art god" (Strangers in a Strange Land).
Why is it so very difficult for these self-same people to accord that knowledge to someone 2000 years ago? Is it because he was supposed to be an ignorant savage, as he didn't have a computer, and didn't fill the Internet with his writings and posts? Does it offend our "civilised" sensibilities?
Or maybe it's a reaction to that which we were raised with, it being easier to discount something that we had partial knowledge of, rather than examine it in another context? Are we somewhat easier with the idea that he might have been an alien, a myth, a man with storytelling followers, a very naughty boy?
One thing is for sure, for about 2000 years people have been convinced not only that he lived but that he lives. Many of those folks lived, died, and were martyred, a lot closer to the timeframe of which we speak. Sure, it's possible they were merely wrapped up in a cause and were fanatical to the point of being willing to lose life and limb. That doesn't strike me as the tone of the early church, though. Don't they rather come across as a mixed bag, many transgressing the OT law, in fear of their lives, yet holding something to be precious enough to lose life for?
Oh, and another one with personal encounters, here. Then I discovered that "Christ" was not just without, but was also within...
Terry:
The bulk of Christian religion is the quoting of Paul.
I agree, and yet he never wrote a gospel, so for the purposes of this thread you've potentially missed the point
And yes, I've read Josephus. It took a while, but I enjoyed it thoroughly. I've also seen the arguments for and against the "Jesus" comments.Are you really so dogmatic as to declare there is absolutely no chance that a teacher, called Jesus or somesuch, walked the earth a couple of thousand years ago?
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JW83
Le, Actually, Jesus' bio has similarities to pagan mythology, particularly the Goddess-Son strand, which was picked up by the Mary cult. Not surprising, since the whole Bible is a cut & paste of many preceding religions.
I think that Jesus was a real historical person, mainly because he was so revolutionary. His ideas re social justice, women etc went against the social/religious grain, & I think so many people follow Jesus because they sense his inherent humanity. This is not to say that the persona was not reworked!!! It definitely was!
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FairMind
Yes, I believe he existed (still exists) and walked the earth and I believe he is God's son who is the first born of all creation. I have never met him but do accept his sacrifice and I look to him (not an organization) for salvation.
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Preston
Hmmm....
It certainly makes sense that Jesus did exist. How can the entire world be effected by a 2000 year old myth? It doesnt make sense, even Terry, you will have to admit that. You don't see calendars, churches, stories and films devoted to Ulysses now, do we? I do not believe that Jesus was God in human flesh, however I do believe he was one of the great spiritual masters, like Buddha.
I will say that I'm a little thrown off that Jesus never penned a word in his life. If he had so much to say why wasnt it written by him? Maybe his life was truly a mystery to everyone that knew him and the gospels tried to fill the details.
BTW, Read Ray Bradbury's excellent short story "The Man"
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Terry
Are you really so dogmatic as to declare there is absolutely no chance that a teacher, called Jesus or somesuch, walked the earth a couple of thousand years ago?
Which is the more DOGMATIC? Asserting the existence with so little to base it on, or, to refrain from such assertions of existence?
Terry
Define DOGMATIC:
characterized by arrogant assertion of unproved or unprovable principles
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Terry
It certainly makes sense that Jesus did exist. How can the entire world be effected by a 2000 year old myth? It doesnt make sense, even Terry, you will have to admit that
Do you see no difference between FACT and OPINION?
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Leolaia
Le, Actually, Jesus' bio has similarities to pagan mythology, particularly the Goddess-Son strand, which was picked up by the Mary cult. Not surprising, since the whole Bible is a cut & paste of many preceding religions.
I agree, it certainly does have similarities, and I have tried to document some of them here. The similarities are often stronger not in the gospels themselves but in tradition (such as the case of Mary). Another enigmatic theme is the Jesus-Mary Magdalene tradition which has a direct counterpart in the stories of Simon Magus-Helena and which has a serenely mythological background in Hellenistic Sophia traditions (cf. the mystical role of Mary, as the companion of Jesus, in the gnostic writings), which is made explicit in the Simon Magus-Helena stories that also have enigmatic links to the narrative in John 4. The dying-rising mytheme and Jesus' kingly subordination to his Father (cf. the Ancient of Days vision of Daniel, which probably rests ultimately on Canaanite mythological motifs) are also elements that may be attributed to such a source.
However, these are only shadowy facets or the broad outlines of Jesus' story. For everything else, the real bulk of the narrative, we need to look at the OT -- and specifically the Greek Septuagint -- to see how the stories themselves were composed.
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RunningMan
Many people walked the earth 2000 years ago. Some of them were named Jesus. It is possible that a guy named Jesus became the basis of inspiration for the Jesus myths that we have today. It is possible that the Jesus myths are based on a composite of actual individuals and legends borrowed from many cultures. It is also possible that it is 100% legend.
So, there may be a kernel of fact at the center of the story, but that is really irrelevant. The Jesus of the Bible, who is the son of God (or God incarnate if you prefer), who performed supernatural acts and rose from the dead to redeem our sins is not a real character.
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Leolaia
For one example, see the following on the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness: