i need some skeptic input... dreams that come true (page 9)

Jeffro

I had a look at the Remote Viewing site from the prior post link. From that site, it appears that the US Government did investigate the merits of 'Remote Viewing' but largely the practice appears to have been the stuff of supermarket tabloids and websites of similar ilk. From what I can find, it appears that it is only proponents of remote viewing who say that the government even looked in to it. The Department of Defense website search engine returns no relevant results for either "remote viewing" or "stargate" yet it is candid enough to provide search results on supposed ufo sightings. On that basis I would need proof that the government's use of "remote viewing" is not a hoax.

EvilForce

Jeffro...remote viewing is b.s.

Here's a link outling the govt. program w/ the cia

http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/CIA-InitiatedRV.html

LittleToe

Tetra:
So you have. Apologies. I've re-read that post in that light. Thanks!

Jeffro:The thing I refer to you not listening to is the request to desist from condescension. Feel entirely free to use logic and sceptical arguments. Heaven forbid that you should be refused "free-speech". Incidentally, I like your sense of humour

You ask about mass and astral-travel. I can only hypothesise, but would suggest that the "gravity" surrounds the host vehicle, not physical mass.

Jeffro

Jeffro...remote viewing is b.s.

Indeed. The web site from the link I was provided with did smack of a hoax. Neither the Department of Defence nor the Central Intelligence Agency search engines provided any publicly released information on 'remote viewing' so I am not convinced that claims from 'remote viewing' proponents regarding these organisations are substantiated.

Abaddon

Two threads, one subject, buggered if I'm writing seperate posts;

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/91989/1.ashx

Proof smoof...

There has NEVER been a case of precognition recorded in an incontravertable and unambiguous fashion prior to the event. NEVER. Not even by people who claim they have pregonitive events often, and therefore would have the opportunity to prove precogniton once-and-for-all on a regular basis.
- This defies credulity, if any believers would care to account for this lack of evidence or rebutt this statment with evidence, I would appreciate it.
No person has ever managed to display psychokinetic powers in controlled experiments in multiple centres.
- If any believers would care to account for this lack of evidence I would appreciate it.
No person has ever managed to transmit usable data in controlled experiments in multiple centres.
- If any believers would care to account for this lack of evidence or rebutt this statment with evidence, I would appreciate it.
No person has ever managed to 'remotely view' under a classic 'double blind' experiment.
- If any believers would care to account for this lack of evidence or rebutt this statment with evidence, I would appreciate it. Skyman, saying 'But the simple fact the Govenrment uses the remote viewers shows all of us that there is something to it' is not proof; the government have been mistaken and wasted money in the past you know.
The 'proof given' is an article on a website about remoteviewing; yes, of course, that's 'proof', two newspaper articles with no documentary evidence or corroboartion what-so-ever, and an experiment that hasn't been duplicated yet.
- None of that is 'proof'.
Oh and the metareviews by Radin have been questioned;
- http://members.cruzio.com/~quanta/review.html.

Basically either paranormal powers are so unreliable, weak and useless as to thus far defy scientific proof (which is convenient, think of anything else people have believed in that defies scientific proof, ooooo, can anybody see a pattern here *slaps forehead*), or they don't exist.

Any one with evidence worth a damn, or an explanation for the LACK of evidence where logically there should be evidence if the phenomena exists, feel free.

Oh, and my stance is I WISH there were mindpowers, but can't prove it even thought I'd love it to be true.

Mary

Jeffro said: On astral travelling: does a person's body weigh the same when they are astral travelling? If so, how does the astral form, that is massless and therefore not affected by gravity, account for the fact that earth is moving in it's orbit around the sun.

Excuse me for my ignorance, but what the hell is astral travelling???

Jeffro

Mary,

Astral travelling is essentially the belief of an out-of-body experience where an ethereal part of a person separates from, and is able to travel independently of, the physical body.

Someone who holds to this belief may be able to provide a more definitive explanation.

i need some skeptic input... dreams that come true

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