i need some skeptic input... dreams that come true (page 6)

LittleToe

Jeffro:

If these experiences are attributed to such a powerful force, why can't this amazing powerful force do something a little more worthwhile than giving vacation previews.

It's to this kind of comment that I direct my reply.
If your post is merely rational argument, then there's surely no need for it.
If you truly desire people to put their head above the parapet, then an absence of such comments can only help.

I'm only describing human nature here. Most of us have experienced something "odd" in our lives, that is difficult to rationally explain. Most people bottle it away, for fear of being considered a freak.

Gyles:
I don't generally read that type of book, albeit it sounds interesting. The little fiction I read is of the scientific kind, like Clarke and Asimov, and that sparingly

Tetra:
After nearly four years on this site, I've earned my place in the freaks' hall of fame.
Frankly, I've attracted my fair share of unexplained phenomena, I don't give a shyte what people think of me, and I'll debate with the best and worst of 'em

Btw, in the example I offered, the communication was entirely over the internet, with a complete absence of visual clues and cues. You might find it hard to believe, but I'm a sceptic by nature, too. I've just had my mind opened to other possibilities, in the absence of better information. As the rational explanations are forthcoming, the gap shall close. Meanwhile I even entertain the impossible.

LT, of the "rationally absent without absence" class

jaffacake

I remain a sceptic, but there have been about 5 experiences in my life, that make me think. With time, I tend to think they are tricks of my memory, or the memories of others. I believe most unusual things truly are tricks of the mind but I'll mention just one to see what others think.

My mother has had 3 or 4 of these experiences that I know of. Two I will not decsribe (because one involves someones illegal activity and another is very personal and extremely embarassing for another member of my family).

My mother just told me about one that involves me. I was in hospital 3 weeks ago for eye-surgery to fix problems I have had for 9 years since an earlier operation for a detached retina did not go well. A couple of weeks before I went into hospital (at very short notice in 1996) a paternal uncle died. A few days later my mother had a dream, but says she was awake whilst having it!? The said she saw a man lying on a bed in an operating theatre surrounded by doctors. She says she was above the scene and thought it was my uncle, who had recently died and imagined she was dreaming of hospital staff trying to save him. Then she recognised it as me, her son, and heard herself shouting to my father that it was me. A few days later I rang her with the news that I was going into hospital for this operation. I wish she had told me at the time, because now I wonder if her memory is playing tricks, and it was perhaps after she heard I was going into hospital that she had the dream. Once a sceptic..........

tetrapod.sapien

hi jaffa,

interesting!

unless i am missing something, isn't this just a description of a dream? after all, you are her son right? so you are on her mind. the death of the family member caused her to have a dream about you dying instead of your uncle?

so in this case, would it matter if she had the dream before or after your operation?

cheers!

RunningMan

I wouldn't worry about her saying:

"sister XYZ died"

However, if she says, "Googlemagoogle, I'm going to kill you", well, then that could very well be prophetic. And painful.

Jeffro

Jeffro:
If these experiences are attributed to such a powerful force, why can't this amazing powerful force do something a little more worthwhile than giving vacation previews.
It's to this kind of comment that I direct my reply.

The comment was relevant to the argumentation - there should be observable instances of these abilities providing some derived benefit.

I would be much more convinced if you told me about a dream that hadn't yet been fulfilled and then later confirmed its fulfilment.

I don't give a shyte what people think of me

People have lives outside of this forum. I would think that most people here don't even give you a second thought - not in a negative way, just that they have their own busy lives to live.

Then she recognised it as me, her son, and heard herself shouting to my father that it was me. A few days later I rang her with the news that I was going into hospital for this operation. I wish she had told me at the time, because now I wonder if her memory is playing tricks, and it was perhaps after she heard I was going into hospital that she had the dream.

It sounds like her mind probably was playing tricks if it was after you told her about going into hospital that she said she dreamed about YOU being there. Or concern for your uncle may have raised concern for other family members which may have manifested in the dream. Details of dreams usually become more vague over time, so it would not be difficult for someone to imagine someone else's face in a dream they had had.

Mary

The real issue is the potential for synaptic connections between neurons allowing for storage of information. There is no evidence that any number of these connections would enable someone to tell the future beyond the ability to deduce outcomes from observable data.

There's no evidence at this time, but who knows what science is going to be able to tell a hundred years down the road?.......while we've certainly come a long way in understanding our brains, we still have a long way to go. I think it would be extremely arrogant of us to suggest that science has all the answers at the present time---they don't. We've just begun to scratch the surface. For all you know, a hundred or two hundred years down the road, they might be able to prove that humans are capable of telepathy or of telling the future.

Jeffro

For all you know, a hundred or two hundred years down the road, they might be able to prove that humans are capable of telepathy or of telling the future.

And maybe they'll be able to prove that trees walk around when nobody's looking. But the point is evidence. Has there ever been a single instance of an unassailable verifiable case of paranormal activity?

Abaddon

Well, it is not 'hard' sci-fi like Clarke, but then Asimov wasn't 'hard' (i.e. science faction) either.

Postulate is humans develop mind powers, aliens have been waiting for this, and the Earth get's invited into happy-clappy peaceful Galactic Organisation where all are joined in mind, ala Teilhard noosphere or whatever the heck it is called.

I like Asimov and Clarke, but that doesn't neccesarily mean you would like May.

Abaddon

What is striking to me is 'belivers' thoughts on it generally radiate from them accepting it happens.

This ignores people have generally thought of wholey nonsensical rubbish in the past based upon the acceptence of a fact that latter proved not to be a fact.

I find analysing it in the way I outlined far more profitable.

I mean, not one person has commented on the fact that no premoniton has ever been recorded in a satisfactory fashion before the event, even by people who claim it happens often. This fact, to me 'carries' important information.

It is a simple and irrefutable point that logically sheds doubt on all anecdotal premonitons as it streaches credulity to think they are never documented in a way that would prove they are real premonitons.

I think EVERYONE would have to agree it is a tad unlikely, but do believers want to discuss a fact which reasonably cast doubt on their beliefs?

You can a believer to a thought, but you can't make them think...

Sorry if that comes over as harsh, but until someone gives me a good reason why no premonition has ever been recorded prior to the event in an unambiguous and clear fashion, even when many people claim to accuracy in their premonitions, I think it is a reasonable point.

You see, if it was recorded in such a fashion it would be scientific fact, even if we don't know how. Just as entangled particles will respond instanteneously even when the distance seperating them would require there was a delay whilst information travelled from one particle to the other is a fcat, even if we don't know how.

But is has never been recorded in such a fashion and no one has given a satisfactory answer why, only avoided it.

new boy

Well there are really NO coincidences. We all have the ability to tap into that kind of information!

In the dream state, we can all do what some call astrotravel.

Try your local book store. I think you will find it very interesting.

NB

i need some skeptic input... dreams that come true

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