Does the Ransom Sacrifice doctrine add up? (page 6)

ballistic

It is a shame we don't have a book of life with all the answers, but we don't. We are early on in man's evolution and as far as we know, we are ON OUR OWN in the universe. The Bible along with religion played an important role in the evolution of society. It has not all been good, but I believe on balance it was necessary.

truthseeker

In response to this, Jesus actually said that "he came to save the lost sheep of Israel." So did he actually change his mind later about saving everyone?

truthseeker

In response to this, Jesus actually said that "he came to save the lost sheep of Israel." So did he actually change his mind later about saving everyone?

truthseeker

In response to this, Jesus actually said that "he came to save the lost sheep of Israel." So did he actually change his mind later about saving everyone?

sonnyboy

I think the whole thing's ridiculous.

What kind of god would require something so horrible just so that we can be forgiven for the actions of two 5000 year old apple-eaters?

Narkissos

Truthseeker

Exactly, Matthew 15:24: I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Which echoes the mission of the Twelve in 10:5f: Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

No mention of ransom or sacrifice here.

toreador

So what do you personally think of the ransom sacrifice the the Jesus story Narkissos???

Narkissos

Toreador,

In page 2 of this thread I posted a link to a chart summarising some of the different NT interpretations of Jesus death/resurrection.

"Ransom" and "expiation sacrifice" are but two of them. "Ransom sacrifice" strictly doesn't make sense. It is either a ransom, i.e. a price paid to the owner or captor for the release of a slave, prisoner, etc., or a sacrifice meant to gain the favour of an angry god. Two entirely different actions / metaphors.

What mattered to many (by no means all) segments of "early Christianity" was to establish some logical connection between the death of Jesus-Christ and their own "salvation" experience and/or expectation. As the NT shows, this could be done in many ways within the cultural mindset of the time. Both ransom and sacrifice provide a sort of causal connection: Jesus' death effectively changes something. Other NT connections are not directly causal, e.g. Jesus' death shows us the path of obedience, of love, reveals God's unconditional grace (in which there is no need of either ransom or sacrifice), etc.

But the very variety of mutually exclusive logical connections forbids to put them all on the same plane, unless it is a metaphorical or figurative plane.

In one word, it was all about rationalising the faith. But most of us now live in a different rational mindset to which the "logic" of ransom or sacrifice doesn't work anymore.

toreador

Thank you Narkissos for your post to me and I will look for the link

Tor

nicolaou

bttt (for Fisherman)

Does the Ransom Sacrifice doctrine add up?

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