White House Lunatic Imperils Us All.

by Englishman 60 Replies latest jw friends

  • peaceloveharmony
    peaceloveharmony

    well, since i'm here, i guess i'll say a bit about dubya too...

    i didn't vote for him and i didn't vote for gore either. i voted nader. i hope in 2004 we can elect a better prez but i'm not holding my breath. i'm happy i was born here, and i love my home state. but i would never think of holding it over someone's head that i'm better than them because i just so happened to be born to parents who live here.

    well okay, i'll shut up now don't have really anything to add to this discussion. just wanted to say my little piece...don't hate me cuz of that dumbass dubya residing at 1600 pennslyvania ave!

    love
    harmony

    "If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced?"
    ..........Percy Bysshe Shelley, English poet (1792-1822)

  • JanH
    JanH

    Dan,

    Why was Norway the only european country, except Switzerland, to not join the European Union? Well, By keeping Norway out of the union, the US still have an alliey in Europe.

    It is true that Norway is one of very few European countries outside the EU. Of western european countries, only Iceland and Switzerland stood outside. In addition, former eastern block countries are outside, but they really want to join and will likely do so at the first opportunity.

    But I don't see how the US could have influenced this outcome. Norway decided to stay outside only after a fair and square referendum. All major newspapers were pro-EU, and so were almost 2/3rds of the parliament members and all but a few in the labour cabinet. The powerful forces against were essentially farmers and fishermen, who for some arcane reason have power far beyond their numbers. I heard some theory that farmers always got their will; in Sweden and Denmark their organizations were pro-EU and they joined. Oh well.

    The EU referendum was indeed the first election of any kind I participated in, while still being a JW. A good lesson in democracy: I lost. Oh well. I know quite a few JWs secretly voted in it. It was a huge issue at the time, of course.

    Thinking about it, I have "lost" every election I participated in ever since. I guess the good guys always lose.

    New election coming up in a few months. I think I'll swallow some camels and vote the Right (conservatives).

    For our American friends: conservatives in Western Europe are generally somewhat to the left of Bill Clinton. If you should map the American Repuplican party into Western Europe, I think we'll have to look at the Republicans in Germany, Heider's party in Austria or Le Pen's in France. The radical right wing of the Republicans can't really be compared to any significant West-European political party, not after 1945 anyway.

    - Jan
    --
    Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The DevilĀ“s Dictionary, 1911]

  • peaceloveharmony
    peaceloveharmony

    umm, for those of us americans that have no idea who Heider or LePen are or what Germany's Rebublicans are up to, i found these sites:

    LePen
    . http://www.adl.org/international/LePen-4-support.html
    . http://users.belgacom.net/radicalright/lepen.htm
    . http://www.sunderland.ac.uk/~os0tmc/contemp1/lepen.htm
    . http://www.iht.com/IHT/DIPLO/98/jf032398.html
    1998 bbc article..
    . http://news6.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_58000/58950.stm

    and here is what i found on Heider
    . http://www.adl.org/backgrounders/joerg_haider.html
    . http://www.abc.net.au/news/1999/10/item19991004083734_1.htm
    . http://www.abc.net.au/am/s97491.htm
    . http://www.ou.org/neveragain.htm

    an old bbc article on german republicans from 1998..
    . http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/special_report/1998/09/98/german_elections/newsid_172000/172134.stm

    alright, i know this is a lot but i think important to learn! so read up america! hehe

    "If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced?"
    ..........Percy Bysshe Shelley, English poet (1792-1822)

  • Michael3000
    Michael3000

    "Yes, Americans did elect George Bush. This is why I am going to post a civis lesson for non-Americans and a few Americans who do not understand how the process works."

    Uh, I have to disagree with you on this, Amazing. The Supreme Court SELECTED W to be president, with help from the pressure tactics of the GOP. This was clearly evident throughout the whole process, and more recently, shown in the New York Times. They ran a front-page article about how "questionable" overseas ballots (postmarked past the election day deadline, mistakes in punching out chads, etc) were discarded if they were for Gore. Ballots found to have similar or even identical mistakes were counted, if the vote was for George W. Is that how the "prcoess" is supposd to work? I'd love to sit in on this civics class of yours! :)

    --Michael

  • Julie
    Julie

    Hi Michael,

    You can sit in on Amazing's civics lesson. It's under US Law and the Presidency (I think that's the name of the thread). Enjoy.

    Julie

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Hawkaw,

    Still waiting to hear why you think that we have hidden reasons for disliking Bush.

    How can we like him? What has he done that benefits anyone in Europe?

    Englishman.

    ..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    peaceloveharmony et. al.

    Thank you Thank you Thank you - my Email has calmed down considerably. I must have inadvertantly clicked on that "notify" box.

    Stupid.

    Thanks so much,

    and "PLH", how are you doing these days. I haven't really found the time to go to the "live chat" and talk to you and the others. I have only had the time to make posts on subjects that concern me - such as the monochorionic stuff.

    hawk

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Oh, Englishman,

    I just saw your post.

    Still waiting to hear why you think that we have hidden reasons for disliking Bush.

    How can we like him? What has he done that benefits anyone in Europe?

    Sorry, I have been busy. I must say after reading all of this through again, I just don't want to go there with you.

    You want to post nasty pictures of Bush etc. well that is your business. I remember another thread where you went after Bush on the pope issue as well and that is why I posted the comment.

    Quite Frankly, my point is the same as commie chris' point and please note my comments to Julie. Bush is a typical politian and you give me a feeling with your posts and pictures that he is worse than usual. Well, that's great you feel that way and I just gotta stop in this thread. I shouldn't have gone in this one to begin with.

    Take care and enjoy having your "own" opinion instead of a corporation's "truth".

    hawk

  • JustAThought
    JustAThought

    What this election really showed was that our voting methods (more or less across the country) are currently not accurate enough to determine a majority of the vote in elections which are very close.

    Al Gore definitely won the majority of the national popular vote by a slim margin. But, as I stated in a previous thread, United States presidential elections are not determined directly from the popular vote. They are determined through the representative electoral process set up by the founding fathers (and yet to be discarded by the american people).

    This result of this, in the recent election, was that one state, Florida, ending up in the position of casting the deciding electoral votes for the election. Florida's electoral votes would go to whichever candidate garnered the majority of the popular vote in Florida. However, the popular race in Florida turned out to be so close that it was ultimately impossible to determine a winner (by vote) there. The margin of error (due to the inaccuracy in the vote) in Florida was consistently greater than any difference in the votes for Gore and Bush found thoughout all the analyses of the voting conducted after the voting in Florida was completed.

    Given this situation, it soon became evident to both parties (if not the american public) that the winner of the Florida popular vote, and thus, the U.S. electoral vote, and thus, the presidency, would be determined by how the vote was counted.. At this point, whatever their public declarations, each party's sole objective was to establish a method of counting the vote which would result in their candidate being elected.

    The point here is that, due to the fact that our voting methods are not designed to be able to determine a majority of the vote when a vote is as close as it was in Florida, any criteria for performing a more accurate count would have to be determined after the election. This is, essentially, what the U.S. Supreme Court ruled on. It ruled that you could not change the counting criteria used in an election after the election. Bush won because he was ahead (by an incredibly miniscule margin) after the vote tallying was completed according the vote counting criteria established before the election, and because the United States Supreme Court refused to allow that criteria to be changed, even refined, if you will, after the election.

    JustAThought

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    OK, Hawk, thanks for replying.

    Most US presidents have been quite popular over here. Bill can't keep away since Chelsea has started to mosey around in Oxford.

    Regards,

    Englishman.

    ..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

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