I have been doing some more research and thinking about the topic of salvation. What got me working on this, is that I have been conducting a Bible study, with my family. I decided a good topic would be the overall theme of the Bible. I broke the Bible down into 5 key points. 1. There is a God, and He created the universe. 2. Man rebelled against God, thereby consigning mankind to a life apart from God, which ultimately ends in our death. 3. God sent His son to pay our debt, by sacrificing Himself in our stead. 4. There will be a judgement, where those who are faithful, believe in 1 and 2, and repent from sin, will have everlasting life. Those who choose to remain in rebellion will have everlasting death. 5. The original order will be restored. After 3 years of studying with the dubs, my children were completely ignorant , and oblivious to the fact that they will face judgement from God. I think this is because the jw foster a false sense of security, in that if you are in good standing with the "visible organization", then you are worthy of salvation. Maybe that is why you have folks leading double lives. They think as long as thier standing with the org is ok, their standing with God is ok? I did a search on the word in the WT cd. One article came up in 2000. Before that there wasn't one hit on that word since 1960, I believe. That struck me as awfully odd. What purpose does a church provide if not to help an individual develop a relationship with God, and through that relationship, be granted salvation. I think that is really a weak spot for them. My wife says that it is not required that a person be a dub, to gain salvation. That is the current "light", is that not correct? But then that begs the question, why does a person need to be a jw then? I also read about salvation in the Reasoning book. They seem to admit that there are faithful (therefore worthy of salvation in other churches). And they will likely admit that there are those among them that are not worthy of salvation. Doesn't that imply that God's people are not all those who are faithful/unfaithful in a certain organization. Rather it is those truly faithful, regardless of who they worship with. The next one they hit, is the whole "get out of the harlot" deal. So the gist of that, is if you go to other churches you will be destroyed with them.... even if you are one of the faithful? So God is going to destroy His faithful, because they are attending the "wrong church", only to resurrect them and grant them eternal life? The more I think about it, the more clear it becomes to me why the discussion of judgement and salvation are not hot topics. If the topic is explored in depth by the faithful, they might realize that they don't need the "visible organization" at all. Let me know if I am misunderstanding any of this.
Help me out, ex-jw Christians: JW and salvation
by Check_Your_Premises 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
ozziepost
's about right, mate!
The dubs believe that salvation is not possible apart from "the Organisation" whereas christians believe in personal salvation.
Simple really.
Cheers, Ozzie
-
Narkissos
CYP,
I know your question was addressed to xJW Christians, but I felt like dropping a few words of caution fwiw -- I hope you won't mind:
Beware of the (JW-like) topic approach. Asking questions first, then looking to the Bible for answers, can lead us anywhere as we all well know. After all, none of the Bible texts was originally written to answer our questions. In particular, who says there must be an "overall theme" for the whole Bible?
The best method of Bible study imo is just reading. Pick up one text and stick to it until you begin to get the writer's point. Comparing translations, reading footnotes and commentaries may help as a second step.
My best memories of Bible study are from this kind of simple reading and free comments: to a JW or xJW this is a really fresh approach.
-
LittleToe
As Ozzie highlights, that would be the orthodox view, give or takea few minor details
I agree with Didier's recommendation.
To that end I often recommend "The Message", as it's really easy to read. But don't forget that every translator has their own doctrinal biases. Nonetheless, the general message is far from what we were taught, and far more personal. -
Check_Your_Premises
Of course I don't mind you commenting Narkissos. I always appreciate your comments. I was just trying to limit the, "there is no jahoba so who cares" from cluttering up the thread.
Actually I do have a simple, "lets read the Bible" type study with the fam.
The reason why the "overall theme" of the Bible came up, is because my wife was freaking out. They went through the "Keep on the Watch" brochure, which is apparantly a big, scary "It won't happen in 1914, 1925, 1975, or necessarily during this generation, but the apockeeclips could happen ANY DAY!!! Are you ready!!!??? Is your family!!!??? Better go to more meetings!!!"
So I decided to address those concerns respectfully by covering the overall theme of the Bible, and our next discussion will be on salvation.
Thanks for your thoughts.
CYP
-
Check_Your_Premises
I was wondering when you would chime in, Little Toe.
-
LittleToe
To not have done would have been remiss, on my part
A word to the wise - engaging in a war of topics is unlikely to work. Let the old drop away, as the new becomes more appealing. The alternative is trench warfare, which you are unlikely to win...
Consider the foundational fears, and how your upcoming reading might be applied to that. Context is always MUCH better than citing individual texts...
-
Robert_V_Frazier
So I decided to address those concerns respectfully by covering the overall theme of the Bible, and our next discussion will be on salvation.
Excellent idea! In keeping with the advice to read the Bible in context, and not just look for specific answers to your questions, I'd advise reading through Romans and Galatians with your family. Restrict your questions to asking what Paul is saying (first) and what does that mean for us now (second). Which to read first is up to you. Both are on the same subject, salvation -- what it means, how it happens, to whom, and why. Galatians was written first, and is shorter, but it's also written in crisis mode, and Paul is clearly very upset with the Galatian Christians. Romans is longer and decidedly tougher going to get through, but it is also less hot-tempered.
Those two books more than anything else led to the Protestant reformation. Groups like the Roman Catholic Church in the middle ages and the Watchtower Society today are in the cross-hairs of these two books, and they don't pull any punches.
Robert V Frazier
-
ozziepost
the Watchtower Society today are in the cross-hairs of these two ;books, and they don't pull any punches.
It might be interesting to have a poll one day to see how many Dubs were converted by simply reading the book of Romans. Ray Franz speaks of its effects at Crooklyn Bethel in his book and my own contacts downunder too were all re-moulded by the words of Romans.
-
Honesty
It doesn't get much more simpler and to the point than the following:
8 On the contrary, what does it say? The message is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. This is the message of faith that we proclaim: 9 if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 With the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11
Romans 10:8-11 (HCSB)