Will the WTS Org change or Die Out?

by doinmypart 56 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  i vote for the slow change.
  
  but in the end, all memes eventually die out, don't they?
• 

  Texas Flood

  I agre that there will be probably be subtle changes in the future. Trust me, there are some people I know who are so into it, relying on every utterence of the WTS literature. I think the holiday beliefs are going to become more lienient as if they aren't already.
• 

  dorayakii

  Or the end could finally come and the WTS could start its planned program of educating the dead loved ones who are ressurected after Armageddon. In that case it'll never die...

  but, all joking aside, i think the WTS is one of the most powerful mind controllers in existance, they can play with your emotions and feelings to get you to believe anything. They've wriggled their way out of 1925 and 1975 and they seem to be surviving this child molestation scandal albeit with many casualties. By simply denying that something has happened, shifting the blame or attributing it to Satan's wiles, they will excuse anything...

  I'm sure that in the near future they are going to start looking for an event upon which to pin the beginning of the Great Tribulation, they may even use 9/11 or some other future tragedy that they deem serious enough. (Even the phrase "tribulation never seen before and will never be seen again" could be used to apply to the never before seen "false-accusations" against Jehovah's clean people).

  Theres so much in Revelation that could be interpreted as invisible and heavenly. I think they can also go the way of the Seveth-Day Adventists and try to re-interpret the seven trumpets and the seven bowls of anger. The meaning of the 1260 days could easily be pulled from the literal 3 and a half years in the 30s to an extended period of preaching for Gods people, and any future disbanding of WT literature or bankrupcy of the Society could be explained as the killing of the "two witnesses". Even the "Babylon the Great has fallen" thing could be shifted to a future appication by reasoning that the Catholic Church is still active.

  The teaching that Jehovah is holding off to allow more people to be reached with "refreshing words of truth" will also allow them to continue for a while. I think that these beliefs may be able to sustain them for at least another 60 to 70 years. They will use this time to slowly modify their teachings (as they have done in this weeks WT study with the suggestion that we may expect to die in this system even without getting hit by a bus).

  They will allow certain changes to occur, slowly modifying their doctrine to become a more appealing sect. But even without changing a thing i think they can still continue to attract many thousands. Their message is still so strong, appealing and unique. Their doctrinal uniqueness will attract ones who feel let down by "mainstream" religion.
• 

  RichieRich

  I didn;t read what everybody else had to say, But

  I give them 50 years.
• 

  doinmypart

  Else - I agree with you on point 1, though I'd love to see point 2 happen, or even a 3rd point...print a WT or KM stating, "We're out of business, its been a good ride, carry on."

  Listener - The turnover rate certainly is high and the ones that stay are going to be lifers. How I wish for an end to the entire thing, or at least some significant changes so life will be easier for my friends & family who will remain JWs.

  sweet tee - showing up at the hospital. That is one of the more despicable practices of elders. They don't go primarily to support the person, rather they go to support WTS policy. Sure, I know there are elders that genuinely care, but for the most part elders want to make sure the publisher doesn't accept blood even to the point of death. How disgusting!

  stilla & tetra - slow change is right, kinda like molasses in winter. Especially in the area of the US where I live, the Bible belt. It's like waking up to a bad dream, every Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday.

  -----------------------------------------

  The WTS isn't a typical business in that it fronts as a religious organization, but it is a publishing company nonetheless. The business has existed for decades so obviously there have been changes in the past.

  The WTS leaders know their current state of affairs is in trouble. Easily accessed information and major lawsuits are SERIOUS threats to the WTS. Tired, depressed, anxious employees (publishers) aren't good for business; constantly living with a heightened sense of urgency (the end is soon) will catch up with the publishers.

  Gone are the glory days when the WTS experienced rapid growth, and publishers were excited. The old tired way of doing things just isn't working anymore. Notably there have been some changes:
  layoffs at Bethel
  new printing presses/facilities
  corporate restructures
  outsourcing things that used to be done in-house

  What is next...do they modify their rules? do they change the power structure? Seeing the problems and doing someting about them are two different things. I think the WTS leaders are unhappy about their state of affairs, but are afraid to do anything about it.

  I'm sure there are a handful of people that could bring about meaningful change but they are afraid of losing the security they have, and relationships if things don't work out. Will there ever be a point when enough people will be pissed off enough to believe in the benefits of doing the right thing over maintaining the status quo?

  For the COs, DOs, and others that want something better talk to others in "power", share your thoughts with others. Forget about what happened to dissenters in the 80's, stop living in fear, do something now.
• 

  Elsewhere

  elsewhere ... I don't understand how they can shirk their responisiblity for their members actions when: 1) They have the names and addresses of all members on FILE 2) They require the members to go door-knocking 3) They require members to report themselves to the local elders if they violate the WTBTS rules. Seems like their totally responsible to me. Oh, and let's not forget that the elders will show up at the hospital IMMEDIATELY if one of the members are critically injured in order to ensure no blood transfusions are administered. Sheisty sonsofbitches.

  I am trying to find a lawsuit that went through the courts a few years ago, when I find it I will post it. Basically a JW went into someone’s yard (past a No Trespassing sign) and was knocked over by a goat and broke his leg.
  
  The JW sued the homeowner, the local congregation and the WTS for the broken leg. The homeowner was found liable and ended up having to sell his property in order to settle the judgment against him. The WTS sent in some of its lawyers and claimed that the JW was acting on his own and was not required to go out in field service. The court bought it and dropped the WTS and the local congregation from the lawsuit.
  
  Basically, right now the WTS claims NO legal affiliation with any JW. Legally every JW is acting on his own. If the WTS were to start selling their literature they would be forced to legally recognize the JWs as employees and would then be open to liability.
• 

  144001

  "If the WTS were to start selling their literature they would be forced to legally recognize the JWs as employees and would then be open to liability."
  
  
  This is not entirely accurate. The reason they stopped selling the literature is because their attempt to affect the outcome in Jimmy Swaggart Ministries v. State Board of Equalization (by filing an amicus brief in that case) failed. Based on that ruling, the WT would be required to collect and pay sales tax on all sales of its literature. This would be extremely difficult due to the number of "publishers" and the need to train them regarding their responsibilities in this regard. Additionally, the tax filing requirements would be quite onerous for an undertaking of this level.
  
  The fact that someone is selling the WTS literature to the public does not, in any State that I am aware of, result in the conclusion that such individual is an "employee" for purposes of determining whether vicarious liability can be attributed to the Watchtower solely on the basis of that fact. However, this fact can be combined with other facts to make an argument, and then it's up to the courts.
• 

  Doubtfully Yours

  They HAVE to change in order to survive.

  They have been changing. There are many things that before it was black-and-white stuff, and now it's grayed out (up to the individual's conscience).

  Not a whole heck of a long time ago... immunizations, organ transplants, psychological treatment, blood fractions, college education, etc., all this was strongly discouraged. Plus, they used to meddle a whole lot more into a couple's sex/family life.

  They've relaxed a whole lot with the harsh way they used to treat the 'spiritually weaklings' such as myself. I mean, before you were either in all the way or out right away. Now, it's quite the nice non-spiritual hang out place for many of us that must stay because of social and family ties.

  Whatever the reason, they'll continue to change, otherwise they'd become extinct.

  I can see very soon the disfellowshipping practice being reformed a great deal. And the just the way they cut back on the publication of the Awake magazine, I see them doing the same thing for the Watchtower magazine. I see them shortening and combining certain meetings so that the number of meetings per week can be reduced.

  I hope I live to see the type of relaxed religion I envision. They've been taking baby steps towards it, in my opinion.

  DY
• 

  Doubtfully Yours

  Oh, and another thing....

  The hard-core/die-hard JW crowd is literally dying. The new breed of JWs is quite relaxed, pro-gray area, into education and highly connected with the inevitable technologic world.

  Having said the above, it's impossible for the WBTS not to change 100%.

  DY
• 

  garybuss

  I was surprised to see the information presented by Leon Festingter in his book When Prophecy Fails that supported the idea that a failure of expectations makes a group member stronger in the group, not weaker. When Marian Keech's prediction's for the end of the world failed, her followers were MORE loyal than before the failure.
  
  I see that happening with Jehovah's Witnesses after the failure of 1975 and 1995. A few like me quit the group, but the core group, like my parents represent, was strengthened and they still obey directions from the Society and they are still believers. They saw the Society's failures as a test of THEMSELVES. They see their own obedience to the Society after the Society was unquestionably proved wrong, as proof of their virtue and their purity. They're proud they are still Witnesses.
  
  They see themselves as the strong ones and they see us as defectives ready to be murdered by god because we wouldn't join them in their loyalty to the Society.
  
  The irrational mind doesn't become rational when it is confronted with facts and reason. The proof that the irrational minds are irrational, is their ability to deny fact and reason in the face of fact and reason. The irrational mind has an easy job of dispensing with people. The irrational mind is only loyal to that which it needs to protect the reality it has accepted without objective reason.
  
  I think the only reason the Watch Tower group isn't much larger today is their leader's inability to manage their own growth.