Hey Sean! Welcome to the message board! (Yeah, it is a good site. I checked out a JW one with the tent icon and found it a bit boring -- couldn't help thinking that way! I not much of a critique on things... but even for me it was a bit boring.)
But anway! lol.... GARYBUSS!!!! Your amazing! Love your as always! You always make me giggle!
Good on you buddy! lol
...Anyway. I don't think they'll die out -- you never know though...
The JW of the "I Love Lucy" era and the JW's of the "American Idol" era (boy TV has gone downhill a lot!!!!) are 2 totally different organizations! That "this generation" doctrine was changed in 1995 to keep the Watchtower machine going.... How else do you keep it going? If not that, then the JW's have all this real estate to sell! That would make millions... billions out of it!!! They business tycoons man! What did Coca Cola do recently? New flavor: Vanilla Coke! What happened when McDonalds were accused of making people obesse? Sell healthy foods!
When you think of JW's as a business, rather than a religious organziation, you can see how they'll never die out. They've got members (not as much as they use to have) but there are still a lot of people that will help out their organization. I use to go the JW meetings on the Central Coast (80 km north of Sydney) and in Sydney... They didn't have a shortage of rich people in the organization! That's what always struck me about these people! When you buy stuff online from a JW, and are only interested in money! My mum found JW's to be a greedy money bunch! $$$$$$$$$$$$$
The reason why (in my opinion) so many people leave, is because the org suits middle class people. A lot of people don't have time to go to meetings, because they work so hard. People work on weekends, and people don't have time to go to meetings. Charles Taze Russel wasn't exactly a poor person. It only suits people like him. OTHER people don't have time!
So they'll always get help from someone or something SOMEHOW. Don't worry about this org falling! IN the distant future, they might decline dramatically, but they have a lot of material support to help the machine going!
Will the WTS Org change or Die Out?
by doinmypart 56 Replies latest jw friends
-
inquirer
-
inquirer
Just one more thing... Just think about all the bethels around the world, all the kingdom halls.... Australia, US, Japan, England... There are so many JW's in Latin America too.
A lot of money there in real estate.
They shaked hands with the world in about 1992 with that NGO stuff as well. So now the world excepts them even if they vast majority of people don't think much of them. -
inquirer
Just one more thing... Just think about all the bethels around the world, all the kingdom halls.... Australia, US, Japan, England... There are so many JW's in Latin America too.
A lot of money there in real estate.
They shaked hands with the world in about 1992 with that NGO stuff as well. So now the world excepts them even if they vast majority of people don't think much of them. -
jgnat
I agree with Elsewhere, and not just because of tax reasons.
In the end, the WTS will continue to use the "donation arrangement" until it finally shrinks to a sustainable size and an empty shell of its former self. Yes, it will continue to exist for a long time, but at a scale that is nothing like it currently exists.
The WTBTS behaves much more like an ageing, large, company than a religion. Take for example it's board of directors, corporate restructuring, protection of it's legal rights, the top-down structure, it's inability to innovate in a changing environment, the time reporting cards, and their practice of door-to-door sales tactics. The religion angle may have produced a unique brand of loyal "employee", but the rest talks distribution, sales, and a steady income.
I think the organization has put itself in a corner, surrounded by "yes" men. It cannot restructure to it's changing environment. I think it will shrink to a shadow of it's former self.
-
jgnat
Here's a description of the issues facing a large, ailing company.
http://www.fastcompany.com/online/62/size.html
Jack Welch does a good job of illustrating the need for proactive change management and constant reassessment when he says, "If the rate of change inside an organization is less that the rate of change outside... their end is in sight".
My biggest fear is that a third-world faction will break off and create a vital spin-off version of the old WTS, and continue to grow.
-
XBEHERE
They will slowly change to avoid dying out
I agree with this. As was mentioned already, the WTS has changed so much since CT Rusell that he wouldnt even be considered to be a JW these days. As new generations are born and grow up, the doctrines will slowly change VERY subtly and just fade away. How many of us, before having doubts, read very old WT literature with the old doctrines and understandings in them? This is how it will be 30, 40, 50 yrs from now also. If you begin spending copious amounts of time reading and studying the "old light" then the elders will keep watch on you just as they will now if they find out. The quote a movie "...fear will keep the local systems (rank and file) in line..."
-
badboy
ELSEWHERE,that happened in South Australia near Adelaide.
-
doinmypart
JT wrote:
the wt is preparing the way to do away with the FDS as we know it today and replace it with a new definition of FDS to include NONANNOINTED... and that is one dogma that clearly is on the way- the Given ones, the replacement of all gb with nonannointed officers, and as i was told personally the use of moses and joshua, elijah and elisha, paul and timothy will be used to represent the PASSing of the Torch
I believe this will happen. When they officially make the change, they will point to past articles such as:
yb93 p.254 "At the Brooklyn headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses, some ‘given ones’ have served for a great many years. These include mature overseers from the great crowd who have gained a wealth of ability and experience. Thus, the Governing Body has selected a few of such overseers to assist in the meetings of the Governing Body’s committees. These are not necessarily the men with the longest record of service. Rather, they are mature, experienced men with qualifications that fit them for giving assistance in particular fields. Their being assigned to work with a committee does not give them a special status.
w92 4/15 p.16
21 The Nethinim’s added privileges were linked directly to spiritual activities. The sons of the servants of Solomon evidently received administrative responsibilities. Similarly today, Jehovah has blessed his people with "gifts in men" to care for their needs. (Ephesians 4:8, 11, 12) Included in this provision are many hundreds of mature, experienced brothers who share in ‘shepherding the flocks,’ serving as circuit and district overseers and on Branch Committees at the Watch Tower Society’s 98 branches. (Isaiah 61:5) At the world headquarters of the Society, under the direction of "the faithful steward" and its Governing Body, capable men receive training to help in preparing spiritual food supplies. (Luke 12:42) Other longtime dedicated volunteers have been trained to operate Bethel homes and factories and to oversee programs worldwide in constructing new branch facilities and halls for Christian worship. They have excelled in serving as close helpers of the anointed remnant, who constitute part of the royal priesthood....and stretch a few scriptures to make their point. Not too many will question how the WTS for years taught loyalty to the anointed and it's GB.
-
Terry
Most organizations which teach US vs THEM only thrive on opposition. When there is no opposition strong enough, they create it by attack.
During the Rutherford era the Watchtower used publicity about persecution to keep the troops in an emergency status. To generate persecution they went hostile about all the important emotional icons society has:
1.The Cross
2.The Flag
3.Patriotism
4.Holidays
5.Health issues.
etc etc.
When you go up against a person who has been INDOCTRINATED and you best them in an argument you only drive the belief deeper and deeper
That is the astonishing part.
The JW's succeed in their indoctrinations with whom?
With people who have not studied enough of their own doctrine to defend it successfully.
The same tactic fails utterly against JW's, Mormons, Muslims, etc.
The only thing that works is to avoid actual confrontations!
You must be non-confrontational.
Impart information in a neutral manner and it is more effective.
Rid your criticisms of adjectives and ad hominem and you disarm the knee-jerk response.
Mind you, that is only when addressing an actual JW!
-
dorayakii
My biggest fear is that a third-world faction will break off and create a vital spin-off version of the old WTS, and continue to grow.
I'd never thought of that. Damn, that IS scary, and i can see it happening too. This hypothetical faction would be even more ruthless than the original WTS and both sides would use some scripture which descibes "the love of the greater number cooling off", or a "great apostacy" or a "great falling away" to support their own existence. Such a scenario could only make each side stronger.
They could have said, "Oh, did we say '1914'? So sorry, we meant '2014'.A slight error in calculation. Hope you weren't inconvenienced in any way." But they did not.
They could have said, "Well, the world *would* have ended, except we prayed very hard and interceded with God and He spared the Earth."
Instead, they did something much more ingenious. They announced that the world *had* in fact ended in 1914, and if the rest of us hadn't noticed, that was our lookout.
- "Broca's Brain" by Carl Sagan
I enjoyed this quote. The evangelical churches, including the WTS, thrive on attributing an invisible application to many of the Bible prophecies... Jehovah's heavenly organisation. Christ's invisible
comingpresence. Satan being invisibly hurled down to the earth. The setting up of the Kingdom in heaven before it can be extended to the earth... A key to understanding how these organisations work is noticing that they never admit that they were wrong, they always have to say they were right and that the prophecy was fulfilled in a different way to how they imagined (preferably in an invisible way).What did Coca Cola do recently? New flavor: Vanilla Coke! What happened when McDonalds were accused of making people obesse? Sell healthy foods!
I also enjoyed this analogy. Every year, the WTS brings out new releases and new light. There is always the discarding of old light when it does not fit the present "truth" (eg. The Live Forever book, the United in Worship book, the Organised to Accomplish Our Ministry book).
Thank you for the quotes doinmypart. The WTS knew years ago that the old annointed ones were going to die off eventually. It must have had in mind for a long time to slowly re-structure the GB, pulling out old ones and replacing them with " mature, experienced men of the other sheep". They must've had this plan going for years and just put out a few off hand comments to test the waters. Eventually they might even go as far as saying that if the GB are in heaven during the 1000 years, who's going to arrange the great teaching work of the ressurrected ones?
Hypothetical future Watchtower article: "These "princes among men" are surely qualified to carry out such a task".