The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom 303 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Jonathan Drake

  Poor literacy levels in the Muslim World doesn't change this. They're taught various interpretations from the local imams. 
  

  This is precisely my point, they aren't reading it for themselves. So the blame would not rest with the Quran, but how the imams are teaching; because the people can't even read it! Lol

  this does not undo the fact that the Quran should still be modernized of course, but it does show the real issue is how it's being interpreted, and how it's being taught, not what it says necessarily- because they can't even read it. 
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  Viviane

  What they are teaching is in the Koran. It is the source material for the bloodbath of violence and deserves a huge portion of the blame.
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  LoveUniHateExams

  As I've previously said, you have a point - interpretation is important.

  What you seem to be ignoring is content. It's a simple fact that in the Quran (and Hadiths) there is plenty of violence, cruelty, bloodshed and killings - either on the battlefield or as capital punishment.

  Here's a thought, what if literacy improved in the Muslim World, ordinary people read the Quran for themselves and decided on a literal, violent interpretation. There's no Muslim equivalent of the pope to correct them.    
• 

  Simon

  So the blame would not rest with the Quran, but how the imams are teaching; because the people can't even read it! Lol

  The Imams read it. The book remains the same. I guess the religion doesn't promote literacy or learning which isn't a great endorsement.

  Trying to use the fact that so many followers of a backward religion are illiterate to 'prove' that the book that religion is based on can't possibly be bad is one of the most idiotic arguments I've heard. The backward commands in that book are precisely WHY so many of it's followers are illiterate and held back. Women are the nurturers of society and if they are denied an education then they cannot educate others. Sure, some learn enough to read to follow their god awful piece of trash and continue the cycle of superstitious ignorance.

  Really, you're starting to sound like a broken record and simply keep repeating a claim that you simply cannot prove. The problems with religion that follow ancient texts has everything to do with both the texts and the people who interpret them.
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  Jonathan Drake

  The Imams read it. The book remains the same. I guess the religion doesn't promote literacy or learning which isn't a great endorsement.

  ...

  The problems with religion that follow ancient texts has everything to do with both the texts and the people who interpret them.

  I agree with this, the religion does have problems. I've stated this previously in agreeing with Exams and yourself, and conceded that surely some fault does rest with the antique language and lack of clarity in the Quran, but not all of it. 

  IN MY OPINION, the majority of the fault rests with the teachers who convince the people of these things and the people for actually believing it. The Quran does have some fault, I'll concede, but I would argue that the major issue rests with those who interpret it to mean insanity and that while the Quran shares blame, its more like it's part of the fire, not the fuel- the fuel is the people's interpretion. That's what I'm trying to say at this point.
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  Viviane

  The Koran is a deplorable book written by a deplorable person and commands horrible things. It deserves a huge share of the blame.
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  cofty

  The millions of Muslims who can actually read the quran in their own language are in a better position to understand the words of the child-rapist better than you. It is in those lands that we find the greatest amount of violence, intolerance, misogyny and oppression. Why? - Me

  this is just not the case. There are at most only 50,000 members of ISIS. - JD

  I wasn't talking about ISIS. I was referring to hundreds of millions of conservative Muslims who treat women like possessions.

  Why do the Muslims who are in the best position to understand an Arabic book behave this way?
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  myelaine

  dear JD...

  you said, "Why would they desire to look into something which has the sole purpose of demonstrating and showing how gods will was both fulfilled and will be fulfilled? You're saying they already know this, but the bible is showing that they know no more than we do, and the gospel was revealed to man, not Angels- as the word means they long to have, or covet, WHAT THEY DO NOT POSESS."

  the bible doesn't say that the angels don't know the gospel. Yes, the gospel of Christ was revealed to men but that doesn't preclude the angels hearing it too, not at all. That's why they rejoice when someone accepts the gospel of salvation...(perhaps you are of the opinion that the angels are a bunch of dumb, dumbs cheering for they know not what?)

  Why would the angels desire to look into something (the gospel) if they already knew? is what you asked me (i think)

  First of all I want to be clear that I agree with you that the angels don't know anymore about the gospel than the apostles. That doesn't mean they know less either.

  why do WE desire to look into something (the bible) when we already "know"?...because we tend to focus on something we appreciate, love and have a passion for. (like a deer pants after water)To that extent man can covet the word of God too but it doesn't mean at all that we don't know what it says.

  love michelle
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  myelaine

  JD...

  the koran was given to mohammad. Do you think that he had the capacity to interpret it correctly?
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  cofty

  the koran was given to mohammad

  No it wasn't. He just made that hateful nonsense up because he was a hateful child-rapist.