The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen (page 29)

Viviane

confirming something happened is just that. You're making an argument from silence.

Jesus confirmed that it was perfect. My argument is from reality.

Village Idiot

@ cofty: "This right here is why I hate theism with a passion."

I don't want to get into semantics but "Theism" is simply the belief in a god not necessarily the belief in the Biblical/Quranic god. A Deist, which is one form of Theism, believes in a creator god but not the biblical god. You might want to exclude them from your hatred even though you don't believe in their worldview.

I speak as an atheist.

myelaine

dear cofty...

you said, "So according to you god drowned thousands of children in the Asian tsunami in order to "deliver them from evil"."...

no, I didn't say that.

God acts toward the "greater good". In the natural occurance of the tsunami, He was able to redeem the situation for His benefit and the benefit of those killed...by delivering those killed...to Himself. Making the death of those people NOT "without meaning" but for the occasion of redemption.

love michelle

Village Idiot

@ myelaine:

"...He was able to redeem the situation for His benefit and the benefit of those killed...by delivering those killed...to Himself."

So god allows people to die so that they can be with him, right? Why can they not just live a natural, safe life and be redeemed after they die of old age?

myelaine

"So god allows people to die so that they can be with him, right? Why can they not just live a natural, safe life and be redeemed after they die of old age?"...

I can read in the bible that when God steps in to "stop" something, judgement follows right away. All I can suggest in answer to your question is that it wouldn't have been in the best interest of all mankind for Him to step in at that time because He brings "judgement" with Him.

being "able" to die of old age isn't a guarantee for a good life, or a righteous life. It's a fact that some wax worse and worse as time goes by.

Viviane

God acts toward the "greater good". In the natural occurance of the tsunami, He was able to redeem the situation for His benefit and the benefit of those killed...by delivering those killed...to Himself. Making the death of those people NOT "without meaning" but for the occasion of redemption.

Those people would have died naturally without the tsunami. God allowed incalculable pain and suffering simply so he could have some more company?

You worship a raging bloodsoaked psychopath. Your god, just like the god of the Koran, is a moral monster, a reprehensible example of capricious pettiness, anger and pointless death. You have the nerve to call it love, but if if it really were love, you would treat your children and others that way. You don't because you don't want to go to jail. How sick that your perfect example of love is morally inferior to his sinful creation?

Village Idiot

@ myelain:

"being "able" to die of old age isn't a guarantee for a good life, or a righteous life. It's a fact that some wax worse and worse as time goes by."

So babies are killed so that they don't grow up to be major sinners?

myelaine

dear Vivian...

you said, "Those people would have died naturally without the tsunami. God allowed incalculable pain and suffering simply so he could have some more company?"...

is it now your contention that "God" caused the tsunami by not preventing it? Or maybe you'd like to just stick to the fact that it was a natural occurance?

dear VI...

you're a deist, you've come to your own conclusions. how would you answer your question?

Viviane

Is it now your contention that "God" caused the tsunami by not preventing it? Or maybe you'd like to just stick to the fact that it was a natural occurance?

In your worldview, God created the world and how it works. The tsunami was a result of his utter incompetence and complete idiocy at designing a world that doesn't kill the people that live in it and as such, deserves not only no respect, but jail for negligent homicide.

If you don't want to give God credit for his design and deny his rightful place as creator of the world and the laws under which it operates, then you simply worship a made up desert blood god as a part of a death cult and, as such, are a danger to you and everyone around you. Worshiping death cult gods never turns out well.

Basically, you don't get to give your blood god credit for good things and let him wriggle out for bad things. Either he is all powerful and knowing or he isn't. He is love or he isn't. He kills on a whim or he doesn't.

Since he does all of the bad things (in fact, the Bible credits him with creating calamity, malediction and death), you're poorly thought out comment regarding natural disasters proves you are exactly as uneducated on the Bible as Jonathan Drake. You both think you know what's in the Bible, the Koran, etc., but then betray that you've the barest knowledge, a surprising ignorance of and disturbing weak understanding of of the thing you claim is incredibly important to life.

In other words, you are are a perfect example of a Christian and/or a Muslim.

Village Idiot

@ myelaine: "you're a deist..."

As I stated on one of my posts "I speak as an atheist." I just wanted to bring up to cofty that there's a variety of theisms.

From what I understand of some Deists simply believe that a god created the universe and then left it alone to evolve on its own. Such a god could be considered sort of a cosmic scientist who created this universe as an experiment to see the results but otherwise is absent as far as the affairs of men are concerned. Also, a Deist does not necessarily believe in immortality of the soul.

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

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