by TerryWalstrom 303 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Because you misinterpret one scripture (saying it says the angels continually desire to look into what was the mystery of Christ) and connect it with another one that isn't even about the gospel but the day and the hour.
you mishandle the text and "lol" because I disagree...wow
Thats just your interpretation. You have no way of proving your interpretation is correct.
I wonder if you realize how ridiculous it makes people look when they desperately deny reality.
Also, it's not an interpretation. Your holy book that you endorse and approve of literally commands and encourages rape, murder, slavery, genocide, misogyny and abortion. You personally have said you would hit a woman.
The only question is really why Christians in general and you in particular thinks being part of a violent death cult is a good idea and that anything you are saying in favor of it has any value.
Because you misinterpret one scripture (saying it says the angels continually desire to look into what was the mystery of Christ) and connect it with another one that isn't even about the gospel but the day and the hour.
you mishandle the text and "lol" because I disagree...wow
I did not mishandle the text, I'm starting to think you just don't want to see it.
jesus, in the flesh (according to the bible) said that the Angels don't know the day or the hour. Then, quite some time AFTER this, well after Jesus died, Peter wrote that the Angels are longing to look into the gospel.
the word for longing is, "epithumeo":
1937 epithyméō (from 1909 /epí, "focused on" intensifying 2372 /thymós, "passionate desire") – properly, to show focused passion as it aptly builds on (Gk epi, "upon") what a person truly yearns for; to "greatly desire to do or have something – 'to long for, to desire very much' " (L & N, 1, 25.12).
From epi and thumos; to set the heart upon, i.e. Long for (rightfully or otherwise) -- covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).
K, so the Angels long for and covet and lust after the chance to look into the gospel. Why? Why would they desire to look into something which has the sole purpose of demonstrating and showing how gods will was both fulfilled and will be fulfilled? You're saying they already know this, but the bible is showing that they know no more than we do, and the gospel was revealed to man, not Angels- as the word means they long to have, or covet, WHAT THEY DO NOT POSESS. They are just as involved as we are, because their "brothers" in heaven forsook their place and took to following the rebellion, they have their own test- will they choose the right side. It's not much of a test if they already know and have seen the outcome is it? Hence they long to look into gods word.
Also, it's not an interpretation.
Yes it is, because HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people interpret it to mean the exact opposite of what you do. I'd say your outnumbered viv.
You personally have said you would hit a woman.
Yes I did, but in context what I said was that I know my wife would HIT ME if I treated her the way the Quran is depicting in those verses. And I would hit her as well- BECAUSE ITS DESCRIBING NORMAL HUMAN BEHAVIOR IN A HEATED SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE ARE SEVERELY MISTREATING ONE ANOTHER. It is not saying, "hit your wife to remind her of her place." You are all the ones being intellectually dishonest because you WANT the Quran to be the reason for these terrible things, YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY THESE BAD THINGS HAPPEN.
The truth is, sometimes there is no reason, sometimes people just want to hurt others. THAT is reality, and YOU aren't accepting it.
I never said the angels know more than men do...I said that when the mystery of the ages was revealed in Christ, God's angels became aware of the gospel of Christ. They knew what the apostles knew.
ummm...The Gospel was spoken. The angels didn't have to "look into" God's word. We're even told to be hospitable to strangers because they could be God's angels. What do you do with the angel in rev. who preaches the everlasting gospel? Or the angels who rejoice when someone accepts the gospel of salvation?
To those who heard but didn't understand it was said that their heart was veiled...the fallen angels heard but didn't understand either. Thats why some 300 and some years later the jinn in the koran said that they didn't know what was happening...but they admitted that their company had taken divergent paths.
Jonathan Drake - I have three points for your consideration:
1. If you're not a Muslim, why do you defend the Quran?
2. Your view that the Quran is a continuation of God's previous messages is too neat, too simplistic. God allowed Jews and Christians to drink alcohol but then forbade it for Muslims. Why?
3. Why did God choose such a f**king hopeless method of communicating his message to humans?
@myelaine
you said:
in the bible God makes it quite clear what His plans are for both the earth and mankind. The only "jinn" that aren't in on the plan are the fallen angels and those they "inspire".
Yet as I've shown, the bible shows this is not so. There is knowledge of the outcome but not the means by which it is reached. That is the reason why the Angels covet what they do not have, which is the gospel- because it reveals part of the plan and they may learn something of it through the gospel. It wasn't revealed to them but to us. Hence they covet it, they lust after it because it has meaning for them too. There is no reason for them to covet it if they already know how things are going to go between then and the end, but clearly they do not and they lust after the knowledge they can find in scriptures given to mankind.
so when the Quran says the jinn, or the Angels, don't know what God has in store for the earth, this is true. They don't know anything except that the original purpose will be realized, but not how and not when- so the ph covet the bible. Thus the Quran and the bible once again appear to agree.
Yes it is, because HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people interpret it to mean the exact opposite of what you do. I'd say your outnumbered viv.
Hundreds of millions people claiming 2+2=5 doesn't make it true. Claiming the Bible and Koran don't endorse and command murder is also not true. It is obvious. A fact. Demonstrable and provable. Claiming otherwise is denying reality. Whatever you or anyone else says about it is irrelevant to the reality of it.
It is not saying, "hit your wife to remind her of her place." You are all the ones being intellectually dishonest because you WANT the Quran to be the reason for these terrible things, YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY THESE BAD THINGS HAPPEN.
I've never made any of those claims nor asked that question. Let's stick to reality, please don't pretend other people said this, they did not.
You said you would hit your wife and said it was normal human behavior.
The truth is, sometimes there is no reason, sometimes people just want to hurt others. THAT is reality, and YOU aren't accepting it.
I am well aware the people are shitty. Endorsing a book and a religion that promotes the shittiest of the shit behavior is not a good idea. It brings us back to the question of why anyone would listen promotion of shitty ideas.
This is also why I love dogs. They tend to be shitty at a far lower rate than people.
Jonathan Drake - I have three points for your consideration:
1. If you're not a Muslim, why do you defend the Quran?
2. Your view that the Quran is a continuation of God's previous messages is too neat, too simplistic. God allowed Jews and Christians to drink alcohol but then forbade it for Muslims. Why?
3. Why did God choose such a f**king hopeless method of communicating his message to humans?
1. Because even if the Quran isn't inspired or from God or whatever, we should point fingers at the real reasons for these things. And that isn't a book, it's just really bad people who want to cause pain. That's all. They don't even need a reason for it. Throwing the blame on that book is having the side effect of bringing in blame on an entire culture, which then leads to further atrocity, such as the case where the man here in America just shot three innocent muslims in the head. If he understood that there was no real reason for the things these people in ISIS do other than being really evil people, then i would submit those three people wouldn't have died. This is fueling hatred of Muslims who are innocent, and all because they follow this book.
2. I don't necessarily believe the Quran is from God. So far I see no reason why it can't be necessarily, but I'm not advocating it as such. Or at least I don't mean to. As far as the alcohol goes, I don't know. Perhaps it's comparable to how God gave the Israelites his law, but then Moses supplied extra things of his own before he died. In this way followers of Mohamed would be under Mohammeds law as well as the Quran and the bible? There's a theory, but really- I don't know.
3. If you believe, the amswer is because of the Israelites. According to the bible, originally God intended to speak with them directly. But when he did they grew fearful and requested a mediator, and after that God never spoke to his people without a human mediator ever again. This is the reason found in the bible.
If you don't believe, then I have no idea- it certainly seems to have proven exceedingly inneffective.
Hundreds of millions people claiming 2+2=5 doesn't make it true.
Comparing something open to interpretation and unprovable to math, which is a closed fact that is not open to interpretation And is provable, is a logical fallacy.
There is never a scenario where any circumstance of context will change what two numbers add up to, however if Muhammed was referring to a specific event when speaking this does change a verses meaning entirely. There is just no comparison existing in what you are saying here.
and I won't even pay the rest of your post the courtesy of being read if we are resorting to such faulty reasonings.
