Was Jesus Created? (page 3)

greendawn

If only some ancient unknown apostolic letter was discovered that would clarify the issue one way or other or if we could travel back in time and ask all the apostles to clarify the issue. Was there a time when the Firstborn Son did not exist? Is he inferior to the Father?

inquirer

Jesus was CREATED. Why did Jesus say "the father is greater than I?"

Who raise him from the dead after 3 days?

Why isn't Jesus talked about in the Hebrew Scriptures? Jesus is only revealed without a "disguise" so to speak in the Greek Scriptures.

Did your mum give birth to you and then become your sister? I think not!

I think what the problem is is that, Jesus is a VERY IMPORTANT character in the Bible, but it's just people's positioning... they elevate him too high! He should be put down a level (only one!) and be made a son of God.

This is the Scripture that JW's use to prove Jesus being created!

Proverbs 8:22 “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.

inquirer

Just remember Jesus means "Jehovah is salvation." ...See the importance is on Jehovah, not Jesus.

"Let your name be sanctified," who was Jesus praying to in the Lord's prayer?

Wasn't Jesus owing his life to Jehovah (God the Father) because he is the one that gives life? Jehovah owns Jesus.

LittleToe

Inquirer:
Let me be very clear about this; I believe you to be wrong!

The Son is indeed a son, not a sibling, and I don't see where anyone said otherwise. Jesus did indeed say that the Father was greater than him, but none of this pertains to being "created". Did you physically "create" your child? Do the languages used even allow for this kind of translation?

Please elaborate on how you make the jump to the conclusion of him being created, from the available evidence.

hmike

If only some ancient unknown apostolic letter was discovered that would clarify the issue one way or other or if we could travel back in time and ask all the apostles to clarify the issue. Was there a time when the Firstborn Son did not exist? Is he inferior to the Father?

Well, greendawn, if we could travel back in time or even just look back, we wouldn't have to ask anybody--we could watch all the events and settle all these issues for everyone. But then, what would happen to faith?

LittleToe

FWIW, IMHO "faith" isn't blind belief. It's "evidence" of a spiritual nature.

trevor

Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

The Divine immortal Jesus Christ was,

invented by the Roman Catholic church and kept viable by the many other entrepreneurs that adopted their invention. They didn’t have the copyright act then or the RC church would have patented him. Think how rich they would be then from all the spin offs!

zen nudist

yes

Jesus was a myth created by unknown people, likely related to the Gnostics and Nazareenes who predate Jesus by 100 years

www.jesusneverexisted.com

the trinity debates remind me of Red Dwarf.... he wants us to worship his desire to own a hot dog stand.... no, you heathen, it was a donut shop!

9thWonder

Thanks everyone for your enlightenment on this subject! I really appreciate the information!

LittleToe,

You have been most helpful. I am not an athiest and I do believe in the three entities of the trinity doctrine. I do believe that the father is greater than the son. I do believe salvation is through the son. I do believe that the holy spirit is a "helper." I do believe that they are ONE, just as a husband and wife are one. However, I don't care to identify their oneness as the "trinity." I guess it makes me feel icky! (I wonder why). I am not a philosopher and that whole concept is confusing to me, and I the way I deal with things that are unexplanable or are not explicitly stated in the bible is to ask questions (which I wasn't allowed to do as a JW) and to do research. Here is one site that I found.

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/whatisthetrinity.htm

But, the burning question for me was now whether or the bible states that Jesus was born, inferior to the Father or resurrected...I needed to know if the bible explicitly states (not implies) that he was created. The answer is "no", correct?

Thanks LT!

Justin

9th Wonder . . . if you asked active JWs your question, they would give you two scriptures - Col. 1:15 and Rev. 3:14. If you go back to the pastor with those scriptures, you'll probably get the same answer Leolaia gave you but the pastor will probably make it easier for you to understand. So now you have two verses, but they don't necessarily mean what JWs think they mean. You'll have to decide for yourself what you believe, and if it's too stressful confronting the pastor, don't.

Was Jesus Created?

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