Continuing to lay the groundwork for my exit. (page 2)

ithinkisee

Thanks all.

Kwin:
Yes, I do have kids. I love them to death and firmly believe it is better for me to NOT fake being a JW just to maintain communication with them. If the worst-case happened and we did split (though I am not even considering that as an option) I think it would be a better example to them of me standing up for what I believe than to be spineless and just stay a JW. (no offense to those that are ... it is just my personal conviction ... plus I know some of you are just biding your time like I have been ... so no worries!)

Also, I don't want to stay in and just get so frustrated that I go out and do something I will regret that would "sabotage" my marriage with my wife (i.e. cheat on my wife or something). That would give my kids more reasons to resent me as they get older... and I won't do that.

Also, I am trying to keep myself in control on the information overload part. Not only am I sticking with just three things, but I am solely restricting myself (on this first talk) to the blatant lying in the publications. For instance, the Trinity is a touchy and confusing subject. Though I have prepared myself to thoroughly defend the scriptural standpoint that Jesus is God, I have resolved to steer clear of that and stick to the issue at hand ... lying in the publications. I simply want to have her seriously doubt the credibility of the Society's publications - that's all.

In the best-case scenario, I have a couple more lying examples waiting in the wings ... how they claim today that they predicted Christ's invisible return in 1914 for over 30 years prior to 1914 (yeah right ..) and the 1975 stuff.

I appreciate the point about getting your wife to respect your intelligence. I will use this point. Thanks Kwin. SHe already asks me questions about chronology issues anyways ... so I know she knows I grasp it. I'm a .NET programmer anyways for crying out loud!

Check Your Premises:Thanks for the encouragement. I do have a lot of research but I don't even come close to the research done by AlanF, Amazing1914, Leoleia, and others. My stuff is more user-friendly and less scholarly ... but I do have my entire notebook in digital format ... so I will send it to you eventually. Remind me again in a month or so...

-ithinkisee

Check_Your_Premises

My stuff is more user-friendly and less scholarly

That is what I am looking for. One of my strategeries is to have "the folder". It will be filled with very simple, very easy to follow "sound bytes" and data. It will be left laying around prominently. She is a woman. She will look through it.

Have you thought of hinting a bit to get an idea how your info will be recieved?

You know how concerned I am for you. I tried to have the "talk" and it turned into the "incredulous scream". Just don't get your hopes up. If you are anticipating a certain outcome, and you don't get it, or even worse she is completely obtuse, you will get frustrated with her.

For instance I have yet to get a dub to acknowledge that they can even understand the meaning of this sentence; "If the society asked you to do something that you felt was against God's will, would it be wrong to disobey the org?". That sentence literally does not compute. I might as well say, "does haircut you think dog is jellydonut?"

I guess I am just saying, expect to be dissappointed and you won't be.

Peace. Or peice if you prefer?

CYP

outoftheorg

Check_Your_Premises

Ithink,

This might be a touch personal, but my sense is that you have made up your mind about the org. Now you are taking a "you can join me if you want to attitude" with the Mrs? If she doesn't join you, what is going to happen? Will you leave her?

Just curious.

Just trying to be a good counsel to you.

ithinkisee

Trevor,

Upon further reading of your post ... I believe the quote you made from that book is exactly my strategy!

"Appealing to their sense of honesty as a legitimate reason to examine their beliefs, at a pace they can cope with, is a good place to start."

-ithinkisee

ithinkisee

Check Your Premise:

This might be a touch personal, but my sense is that you have made up your mind about the org. Now you are taking a "you can join me if you want to attitude" with the Mrs? If she doesn't join you, what is going to happen? Will you leave her?

Leaving her is not an option on the table initially. She will not be judged by me if she chooses to stay a JW. In fact, whether or not to stay a JW is not on my list of things to accomplish tonight.

Of course, after going over my issues with her tonight the question of whether or not to be a JW will be strongly implied.

No. I do not plan on leaving her. As some have said in the past ... for many wives it would be easier to hear "I cheated on you" than "I no longer wish to be a JW" (with no scandalous reason for not being a JW).

-ithinkisee

TheListener

I think I see said:

I think it would be a better example to them of me standing up for what I believe than to be spineless and just stay a JW. (no offense to those that are ... it is just my personal conviction ... plus I know some of you are just biding your time like I have been ... so no worries!)

You have stated something that feels so true to me. I hate doing the slow fade. Not because of the meetings or service and the other stuff, but because at some point I feel so disingenuous. I feel like I'm lying to my family. My wife knows how I feel and has even asked why I still go. I suppose this is common when one is fading. The hardest part is knowing when the fade has softened your family to your exit but not made them think you're a hypocrite. It's a fine line that I'm finding dificult to locate.

Please continue to share your story and advice. It is priceless to some of us.

Check_Your_Premises

Yeah, definitely keep it friendly, and the mood light.

Maybe just start out with questions. Don't make it a presentation. Maybe only hit one subject to size her up.

Don't think, "that one didn't work, now I will try this one!!!" If the first one didn't raise some genuine concern or inquisitiveness, the other ones won't either methinks.

Ask her what she thinks about this or that. Act like you don't think the org is bs. You have to play a role, that she will find acceptable. Act like you have some tough questions to reconcile. Can she help. WHAT DOES SHE THINK??? Keep coaxing her with that. "I don't care what the org says, what do you think about this?"

Check_Your_Premises

Ithink,

My question maybe wasn't the one I meant to ask. It is more of like, "what is your focus?" I get the sense that you are in a very tumultuous time in your life, which is understandeable since your belief system has gone through an overhaul. The next logical step seems to be to share that with your wife. Not saying that isn't true by the way. But I think your focus might be on yourself, what you want, what you hope from her. Rather, I think, your focus should be on her during this discussion. What is she feeling, experiencing. How is she reacting.

I guess I am just saying, make this about her, not about you. I think you will have more success if you do that.

Make sense?

I hope I am not sounding like I don't trust you. I know you are a smart guy. Think of this as a peer review. I want to help you capture requirements, and make the best design decisions you can. Hopefully when you compile, we won't have to much debugging to do.

kwintestal

you have another PM.

Kwin

Continuing to lay the groundwork for my exit.

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