Continuing to lay the groundwork for my exit.

by ithinkisee 50 Replies latest jw friends

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  ithinkisee

  CYP,

  Will do ....

  -ithinkisee
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  upside/down

  But with me, cross out "trinity" and put in the UN/NGO connection.

  ditto...

  u/d (of the you can't draw bee's with vinegar class)
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  jgnat

  I pick to argue about things that are tangible and proveable. There's no way to prove what happens after we die or whether God has three legs or two. I have seen people argue those points on linguistic/bible reasoning alone, and all that happens is the two debaters return to their corners licking their wounds. Both end up more entrenched in their own position, convinced the other "lost" the argument.

  On the other hand, if there are things that can be proven by direct experience (lack of love, UN involvement), what can they say? That they don't believe their own eyes? Much better argument.
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  greendawn

  I wish you good luck the jws have lots of invalid ideas but what a dub thinks is: even if the WTS is so wrong and I leave where do I go thereafter for some spiritual activity?
  
  There are many serious non cultish religions that are much better than the dubs for enjoying a spiritual life.
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  M.J.

  I think willyloman is right on. I actually presented the 607 thing to my wife early on. I got into "deep research". PM me and I can point you to a link with a very detailed chart I made which lays out all the evidence if you'd like it. I unloaded this thing on my wife and she acknowledged that it was a wonderful thing I was doing so much research...yet it totally overwhelmed her. After the initial presentation she totally shied away from discussing it. I didn't push it as I thought perhaps I made my point. But really, plain and simple, the Society's research is more credible than mine in her eyes. No matter what holes I shoot in it, they are more credible in her eyes as being the world's experts on chronology and I'm just a schmuck with an axe to grind.

  I also exposed the lies in the Trinity brochure a few months ago. She was really taken aback at what I showed her on the misquotes and misrepresentations. After the worst of it (the Ante-Nicene Fathers), the following night she told me that she didn't want to study with me anymore. She suggested I study with some particular smart guy in the congregation. This is when I realized that at this point she really felt she could not defend the WTS position against my questioning. And that continuing with me was a threat to her. Our communication was not good and our level of rapport when talking about religion was pretty lousy. So instead of pressing her I agreed to start studying with this guy. That's where I am now. But the good thing is I have really been building bridges with her and she opens up more to me than she ever has with respect to religion. Plus she's been recently seeing indirectly that this guy doesn't have the answers either. I've started to write a little "study summary" on my studies with this guy on our PC and have noticed she has been reading it by looking at when it was "last accessed". This is a variation on "the file" idea from CYP.

  Ultimately, I think that 2 way communication is the best way to go. Find out what resonates with her. In my studies with the super brother, I'm getting a better feel for maintaining rapport while asking tough questions. I've just started applying what I'm learning here on my wife.

  Sorry for rambling but hopefully somewhere in there you might find something useful.
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  TheListener

  IthinkIsee,

  A worldly friend told me something once that I keep in mind. Perhaps it will help you tonight.

  -Her entire life is supported by a foundation of Witness doctrines. Everything that is read or watched is seen through witness filters. You as a husband are a pillar in her foundation. Your strength, in her mind, depends upon the witness foundation. What you are doing, in her mind, will remove your pillar from under her. She will feel unsteady and unsure without her foundation. Be sure that she understands that the most important thing is her. That regardless of how you feel about doctrines and chronology your feelings for her are unchanged. For a time you are going to have to walk the road of life alone (as she contemplates what you've said), this may be a long or short time, be prepared to be accepting of her so that she can be accepting of you.

  I don't know it made sense at the time and I keep it in mind even now before I say something critical about the WTS. I've spent the last couple years ensuring that my wife knows that my love for her is NOT based on any WTS doctrines. It is based on who she is as a person.

  I think you know this already, but I want to make sure tonight goes well for you.
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  TheListener

  M.J. that was good. I would like the 607 link. You're right by the way. Once you show that you can disprove a WTS teaching your mate always says you should ask the elders or write the society; like there's some special hidden answer that only comes out when you ask for it.

  IthinIsee,

  another topic that might help you is something a person I was on a committee about once said. She said that her issue was dogmatism. I didn't think about it right then, but it makes sense now. The WTS is dogmatic about things that are really up to interpretation. Why is that?? (we know, but dubs don't- it makes them think).
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  AK - Jeff

  It is a tricky little draw bridge to cross for many. The wrong move can bring the draw bridge up and shut off communications.

  I cannot begin to tell you how to approach your wife - since I do not know her. I do know that witnesses are taught to subtly lead others into the cult with the use of simple leading questions and thought. That might work on her if properly done.

  Honey, how should we feel about a religion that has actually affiliated with the United Nations organization? Would this bring God's disfavor? Or could there be good reasons for that action that God would approve of?

  Honey, when Jesus 'selected' the Bible Students as his channel in the early days, what did they believe? Even though we might say that the light has gotten brighter, would not the immediate changes show a God-directed organization?

  Honey, why did not Jesus reprimand Peter for his godless denial of Christ on the night of his death? Why do the witnesses fail to show love like that toward one who makes an error far less serious than that? Seems like they just want to control, not love.

  Let those questions play in the background for a while. Pretty touchy matter at hand for you - I was fortunate that my wife and I were on the same page all the way when we started to see the organizations backside up close. Good luck to you.

  Jeff
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  tetrapod.sapien

  ya, excellent advice here.

  best wishes man,

  TS
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  Darth Yhwh

  I hope all goes well for you. Theres some good advice in this thread. Make sure she knows through out this whole process how important she is to you.

  It's threads like this that make me realize how fortunate I am and what a good decision I made in marrying whom I did. My wife is an "unbeliever" or "worldly" woman. She was afraid of Witnesses and their doctrine for some reason. Probablly because of the holiday issues. Although she still gets uneasy regarding their beliefs, I think I've been able to help her understand their situation a little better over the years.

  I couldn't imagine being married to a witness as a witness and trying to break free without harming the relationship. You certainly have your work cut out for you. My advise, I suppose, would be to take your time and work slowly.