Continuing to lay the groundwork for my exit.

by ithinkisee 50 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  trevor

  ithinkisee
  

  I know with my wife, that when she is wrong she will never admit it at the time or even later. I have learned not to corner her or push her for an admission that I am right and she is wrong. I state my case and let it rest. She often won’t comment but I read her body language. Often a couple of days later she will show in subtle ways that she has accepted my view.

  She will never lose face so I plant a seed and let time work it’s magic. With something so serious as your wife's religion it will take a lot longer.

  Your wife may be very different but all people including men respond to this respectful and non confrontational approach.
• 

  ithinkisee

  Well, last night when I was going to make my stand here was the scenario:

  ---

  I had three "folders" on the table. Unlabeled.

  I had the Kingdom Interlinear, my big fancy NWT leatherbound reference bible, NIV bible, King James Bible, Berry Interlinear, Living Bible, Insight Volume opened to Chronology. My laptop was there too, with the WT CD-ROM software open, as well as a free online Parallel Bible app.

  I know I know .. this seems a little ominous and overwhelming. But bear with me.

  While she was gone, I wrote out in longhand the years of Babylonian rule based on the Society's regnal lengths (a'la Alleymom's KISS method) and made some other manual notes. This was to give the impression that I was in deep study.

  My intention was to have her walk in while I was doing some studying like this ... showing her that I was doing some deep study. I was not planning on even really breaking open much from all books I was surrounded with - except maybe the interlinear and my NWT.

  The "real" reason I was surrounded by all those books is because of a trait I noticed among most JWs (including myself). They often purchase these additional bibles and so-called "secular" reference works, but NEVER USE THEM. They display them prominently on their shelves - in some outward attempt at faux-bible knowledge - but rarely use them in Bible study. I felt this would play on some sort of inner tinge/feeling of hers that even though we have these great reference works in our own home we never use them for real bible study.

  I was not going to even bring up what my research was ... I was going to coax her to ask me ... "What are you researching?"

  While I haven't openly told her anything about my real feelings about JWs, she knows I have been deeply studying chronology, and several bibles and interlinears have come in the mail lately from Amazon.com and stuff. Plus I have skated out of Field Service for the last three months (but turned in 10 hrs per month anyways). I make about 1 meeting per week.

  Anyways ... that was how I was gonna segue into the folders. After she asked me "What are you studying?" I was gonna say something like "Honestly, it seems to me that 607 and 1914 are completely made up dates."

  From that point it's on like Donkey Kong ... stay focused ... don't divert from the dialogue ... stay calm ... if I get called arrogant or faultfinding don't get defensive ... admit to her that I often kept thinking I was being arrogant or faultfinding so I would do some fact checking ... don't get defensive ... be loving ... let her know after I explain it how hurt to the heart I felt that I had been deceived .... don't get defensive ... no ultimatums ...

  These are the mental notes I tell myself over and over again. . .

  -ithinkisee
• 

  ithinkisee

  CYP said:
  

  My question maybe wasn't the one I meant to ask. It is more of like, "what is your focus?" I get the sense that you are in a very tumultuous time in your life, which is understandeable since your belief system has gone through an overhaul. The next logical step seems to be to share that with your wife. Not saying that isn't true by the way. But I think your focus might be on yourself, what you want, what you hope from her. Rather, I think, your focus should be on her during this discussion. What is she feeling, experiencing. How is she reacting.

  I guess I am just saying, make this about her, not about you. I think you will have more success if you do that.

  Make sense?

  I hear you man ... I know what you mean. My focus is on my wife to an extent, and a big part is about me. But hear me out:

  My wife, for YEARS now (due to my doubts) does not know where I stand on much of anything. I have been intentionally vague and non-communicative for years.

  I feel I owe it to her to let her know exactly where I stand. Part of knowing exactly where I stand is how I feel about her. I love her deeply ... I realize it even moreso now that I stand a chance of losing her. Maybe that is what it took for me to realize how much I love her. In my head at least, telling her where I stand and what I feel and how I feel about her and how I feel about the religion we have dedicated our lives to is one of the most important things she could hear.

  My whole purpose in researching from the beginning was for HER. I wanted the next ten years of our marriage to be vastly different than the first ten years. I needed to face my doubts head-on and overcome them so that we could move forward the next ten years.

  I hope that makes sense ...

  -ithinkisee
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Ok Ithink.

  Sorry to make you explain all that. (your play I mean)

  It sounds like you have your character down, your motivation. You invite curiosity, not assaulting her with data.

  It sounds like a pretty good play. I can't find any major flaws with it. I would probably only stick to one subject, maybe not hit her with all three.

  You wont' end the conversation with her saying, "they're frauds!!!" Your best result will be a slightly troubled, and inquisitive look on her face, and a mumbling of something about needing to look at this some more.

  That is probably your number one goal of this play. She wants to look into it more. That is what you are shooting for, to arouse her curiosity.

  You probably want to tell her somehow to keep this between you guys. You don't want to have her running to the elders to clear all this up.

  What do you think, Ithink?
• 

  seattleniceguy

  ithinkisee,

  Just wanted to say good luck, and I'm following your story with best wishes.

  SNG
• 

  kwintestal

  You might want to look at some of my earlier topics. I'm not `100% sure, but someting there might help.

  Kwin
• 

  ithinkisee

  Thanks CYP,

  Yes, keeping it between us is important. She probably won't go running to the elders. I believe she will first go to her father (who is an elder in a neighboring congregation). However I have noticed some serious chinks in his JW armor ... he has made comments and questions that even made me make a doubletake. I actually look forward to talking to him. I almost feel he just needs one more solid push and he will be out.

  I appreciate the observation that if she doesn't take well to the first folder, the next folder or two aren't gonna make much difference either.

  Yes, my goal is to get her to LOOK INTO IT MORE. I hope that I can at least accomplish that.

  I am not even remotely expecting her to renounce her JW ways after one night of discussion.

  After my wife, my mom will be next down the line - she is a congregation pillar and is getting ready to marry a JW-heavy (DC overseer, hi-powered bethel connections).

  My main focus is the immediate family only at the moment.

  Thanks again ... everyone ... I have to take care of some clients right now, but shoulf be back on around 2pm EST.

  Later,

  -ithinkisee
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  I hope that makes sense ...

  Yeah it does. Sorry to ride you so hard. I don't know you very well. I know you are a good researcher. It is just that unless you tell me those things, I can't assume that you have thought of them.

  Well I can't think of anything else to grill you on. You can prepare and prepare. At some point you just have to throw your hands up and perform! If you did your best, you don't have to worry about the outcome. Because even if you screw it up, you can't blame yourself. You know that you honestly did everything you could. The result was simply outside of your ability to control. No worries!!!

  One last note. No plan survives contact with the enemy.

  Now go kick some ass!

  (Simon told me I couldn't sign off with this anymore, ala Cato the Elder, but............)Censer Watchtower esse delendam (I declare, the watchtower must be destroyed!!)
• 

  willyloman

  I can only speak from my own experience. Your mileage may vary.

  A lot depends on your communication status with your wife. In my case, we have always been very open in private conversation. We talk about everything. She was sometimes critical of people and behaviors she saw at the KH. She was more subtle about criticising dub doctrine. When I began having serious doubts AND decided to do something about it, I was nervous about bringing this up to her. I was afraid she'd react negatively and I didn't want to build a wall between us.

  Like you, I was always big on "research" as a dub, so when I discovered JWD I began to copy and paste portions of pertinent threads that spoke to issues that were close to my own heart -- and that I knew would resonate with her (based on things she'd said in the past). I'd print these "essays" out and show them to her, identifying the source as an online discussion group for JW's. She was amazed to find witnesses expressing themselves on topics that had been running through her own mind. Pretty soon she started asking if there were any more "interesting" topics on the discussion board. I printed out more samples. I found it interesting that she kept all these papers. First she stashed them in a night stand drawer, then eventually transfered them to a three ring binder.

  Of course, these dissertations became the topic for many of our casual conversations as we sat around having coffee in the morning before work. It became increasingly clear to me that she had the same doubts I did. After reading a thread on whether the organization could be "reformed" she opened up about reforms she'd like to see. It was quite a list. She said that if a JW underground was forming, she'd want to be part of it. Later, driving back from a circuit assembly that was incredibly mind-numbing (as they do become when your eyes begin to open), she was critical of some of the talks. Then she said, "I kept thinking that if I hear one really crazy thing from the platform, I was ready to walk."

  I could go on, but I guess my point is, it might be more advantageous to find out what your wife's doubts and concerns are, and feed those. My wife's deepest concern turned out to be the lack of real love in the organization, despite the lip service they pay to the concept. You have this very nice list of doctrinical things you're dying to share with her, but the risk is that these will be of no concern to her at all. In that case, you'll sound like you've gone off the deep end. And that will scare her.

  On the other hand, if she's already expressed doubts and concerns on those three topics, go ahead and give her more to chew on. It's your call. Just remember, in the end, it's all about love.

  I wish you the best of luck and success on your journey.
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  Check_Your_Premises

  Oh yeah, we will expect an after action report.

  What worked. What didn't. What happened that you didn't expect.

  Then we can use your experience if any of us try to use your play.

  CYP