Very good apologetics for honest seekers

by Shining One 122 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Pole

  ShiningOne,
  As you can see jgnat's faith has not been "destroyed" by "those seeking to destroy it". My guess is her kind of faith is a few evolutionary leaps above yours. LOL.
  jgnat,
  

  ::I would love to start a thread some day that discusses the restless searching that appears to be hard-wired in to humanity. That same thing that makes us miserable also makes us smart. I think. I have a sneaking suspicion that an intelligent machine, without drive, just sits. People don't sit.

  
  I have my own little theory about that. It's called "Wittgenstein's duck". hehe.
  Pole
• 

  myelaine

  Dear AlanF,

  I'm afraid I'm not sure what you are asking of me, but I do have this to say regarding the blood ban..

  The Scripture confines all under sin. the idea of labeling different actions as "bad and badder" is not encouraged but rather discouraged in the injunction, "thou shalt not judge". This tells us to live together and love your neighbour as yourself.

  For any man (especially a man with "religious authority") to claim that taking blood is a sin that is in direct violation of God's will for us, is redundant.

  To show how to live in harmony with our neighbour is the purpose of the law (the law is a respecter of persons). Now, it is true that one must try to live in harmony with fellow man , but, let's face it, we can't all the time. But to inject a "rule" to abstain from blood and then label it a conscience issue is dealing treacherously with your fellow man.

  How so?

  That blood "rule" is a burden that the other must carry whether their conscience ever has to make that decision or not. By labeling it wrong there is a "setting up"' of conflict within the fellow that wouldn't have been there before, so that this "burden" becomes hard to bear if and when he has to deal with it.

  If this rule is established within the mind as well as the "sure consequence", then, when faced with the decision the conscience is not asked to decide, the default rule -- don't do it -- is followed, with the unconscionable "decision" to let him die!!!

  How is this loving your neighbour as yourself? How is this seeking the best for your fellowman? This particular "rule" is NOT speaking "the truth" in love, plane and simple. Now, when a nominal church says -- you shouldn't smoke--- they do so with Biblical authority based on the premise that they ARE seeking the best for their neighbour. To make NO SMOKING a rule to live or die by is wrong, and so you don't see many of the Lord's Church imposing this as a "rule" on their fellow man. They will allow God to work on the conscience to bring that man into His will--which is....Love thy neighbour as thyself.

  Indeed, the only "law" that the Church is commanded to teach leads to life!

  God bless.

  michelle
• 

  GetBusyLiving

  jgnat is my favorite JWD Christian as well. Sh*ting One cowers like a mite in the shadow of her excellent Christian example.

  GBL
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  JGNAT rules!
• 

  jgnat

  LOL Pole! "Wittgenstein's duck". I had to google that. You sent me on a virtual trip! Moments like these display glaring gaps in my self-education. AlanF, I think you have earned yourself a virtual bouquet. PM me your e-mail address, and it will be on it's way. Or, I can try calling you tonight.

  http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~ffeldman/ChisholmMemorial.htm

  
• 

  myelaine

  Terry said: People act for their own benefit and that is sane. Adam acted on information. What is there about the information which Adam would NOT know? Obviously the "good AND bad" of it.
  

  Dear Terry,

  I would like to comment on this, even at this late date...

  If you read the account, Adam and Eve KNEW that the bad was death, and they also KNEW what the good was, they had it! They KNEW not to eat of death.

  The only thing they didn't know was, eating from that tree, and that was the only thing that God wanted to hold back from them.

  You say that Adam acted on information...what new information was he given by satan? ....there was no new information. God had revealed everything to Adam and Eve that He wanted to. Eve was deceived by a false idea(God wouldn't let me die). Adam chose to use his freewill by going against his conscience that told him DO NOT TOUCH. And there is the first sin. imo.

  michelle

  
  
  p.s. I wonder if he felt like a "heel"? Then the LORD said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. We are told that God doesn't die so evil must be, knowing what wrong IS. Adam KNEW what was wrong, but he acted inspite of this, and he became conscience of what wrong IS. And, lest he should take of the tree of life as well and keep doing whatever he wanted forever, he was denied access to the tree.
• 

  Daunt

  There is nothing in the bible that suggest Adam knew what would all happen when they ate the fruit. Actually God was quite indirect on what would happen to them if they die. Correct me if I'm wrong but I never saw anywhere in the bible stating that Adam and Eve's children will inherit their sin for all humanity. They never lived in a world of sin. They never experienced pain and death. How is it to be expected that they would absolutely comprehend what eating the fruit would bring. How can you be fearful of something that is impossible for you to even think about?
  
  I do not trust God's omnipotence. God's creation of humans and angels were pretty incompetent. He either purposefully created satan and the evil intentions that come with him knowingly, or he created everything blindly, and from chance (Seems more by chance than the universe itself). God created the possibility evil out of his inability to understand his own creation, or he created it for this purpose. God is either incompetent or just plain evil.
  
  At least that's what I get from the creation story.
• 

  Cygnus

  I only read the first page of this thread so I might be posting irresonsibly. Matt Slick is a cool guy and I've talked with him a lot but carm.org is a terrible thing for a brain to encounter. Edited to add: Terry, who I just met recently, and AlanF (and Farkel), who I've both known for over 8 goddamned years...... I just wish they were my contermporaries. I love to learn from them, and occasionally mention something they didn't know or weren't aware of.
• 

  myelaine

  From Genesis to Christ there is a general overview of a people with a "particular" God conscienceness, and inheritence. Thanks to the Spirit of God and the Church we are asked to be partakers of an inheritance, and a "particular" God.

  Is it any wonder that the physical decendents of the Hebrew people as well as the NAMED location of that God have been a critical target in world affairs as predicted? Is it any wonder that the Church is doing spititual warfare with a world that opposes this "particular" God "consciousness" as predicted?

  Think about it..... what does your conscience tell you.... be reasonable...

  Some people don't see it very clearly, but it is REAL.

  michelle
• 

  myelaine

  What is it again? it ISREAL.. my spelling...