Since it is obvious all religion is wrong why do so many believe?

by jwfacts 64 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  tetrapod.sapien

  hey LT, how goes it? i haven't been ignoring you. i'm just a little slowed down after my vacation. ;)

  You give humankind too much credit. On the first hand, for thinking it has evolved enough to dispense with religion as a cultural grouping; and on the second, for thinking that it's a lower form of thinking.

  Would you feel more comfortable talking about the primitive deification of aliens from another star-system?

  i don't understand how thinking that it's a lower form of thinking is giving humankind too much credit. anyways, there will always be magical thinking, even though in my pipe dream i like to think that it will all go away.

  also, i don't understand where i became uncomfortable talking about the primitive deification of natural terrestrial phenomenon?

  trevor,

  i do hold to the belief that we are all connected and that we continue on after death. we are all connected to ALL other life on earth via common ancestors, and we continue on after death in the form of the molecules that currently make us up. they have always been here, and will continue on making up other forms of life and non life long after our star has died and the earth exploded. long away into the cosmos our molecules, us, go. no consciousness, but for all intents and purposes a continuation after conscious death. the continuum of the universe as it executes it's code.

  computo ergo sum.

  TS
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  LittleToe

  Jwfacts:

  Still waiting with keen expectation for your opinion on why people need religion.

  Social bonding?

  Mankind is a gregarious beast, whether it's eating a meal together or worshipping our deity of choice. Then there's a bunch of us who respect it as a tool

  Tetra:
  I just caught your vacation thread, a little while ago. Sounds like ya had a great time

  i don't understand how thinking that it's a lower form of thinking is giving humankind too much credit.

  IMHO he hasn't evolved as far as you'd like to think
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  tetrapod.sapien

  LT,

  are we talking about cultural evolution or biological? if it's cultural, then i would say that we are ready to shed magical thinking. however, you have a point, biologically. the modernity of our thoughts are really like a cultural program writen in a new language, but running on an old IBM mainframe. our brains are wired primitively, no doubt.

  so you view magical thinking as a positive tool for our paleolithic brains to work with?

  TS
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  Qcmbr

  I think there is some interesting points about religion being a vaccination (against?) revolution. So far in our society no one has ever practised pure christianity just as no one has ever practised pure communism. Almost all societies have gone through violent upheavals at some point and each time those problems come about not because of religion but because of going against a principle of good. Ehh what? Let me explain. Every war / revolution / struggle is caused by the application of a carnal / animalistic / naturalistic motive - never by higher motives of love, compassion and charity. Revolutions are fought because of oppression , wars are fought over territory , the desire to oppress, to loot and plunder, revenge and pride (normally of the ruling class.) Even the crusades and jihads could never be said to have the motive of love at their heart - only bigotry, plunder, hatred and domination.
  
  If religion is a vaccination then its a very ineffective one in the long term IMHO - in the short term it more often than not has been used by the ruling class as just another tool of oppression (Bush uses it now in a very questionable way - I get chills when he talks on one hand about his religion and yet his actions have shown him as a warlord).
  
  We've had thousands of years and types of governments and they all succeed and fail on different points. The same goes for religion. Whenever we take a pure principle and mix it up with the weaknesses of mankind we get cracks appearing.
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  oldflame

  First off people fail to realize that religion and faith are two different things. Religion is something created by man which by man is imperfect. Faith is created by God and Christ which is the key to eternal life.
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  JW83

  Loved your post Trevor. That's magic!
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  LittleToe

  Tetra:

  so you view magical thinking as a positive tool for our paleolithic brains to work with?

  I'm afraid so. It's the machine code that our operating system resides upon and is seen in every aspect of our lives usually in the form of "awe" (for want of a better word).

  That "awe" shouldn't stop us moving onto the next logical step of thinking "damn that's good - I wonder how that works?".

  This is the difficulty I have with the definition Terry and yourself are using. You seem to be insisting that "magical thinking" is a mind-stopper. Why should it be, when at best it's merely a placeholder for that which we will yet investigate? It's actually ok to think "that's amazing, and I don't have time to investigate it right now because there are too many other things on my plate, but meanwhile I'll label it... hmmm... ectoplasm!".

  STP:

  Ask yourself,if you knew you would die and there would be it,no heaven ,no everlasting life,no 70 virgins,would you still waste your time worshiping a god even if you thought he existed?

  Ermm... Yes!

  It's got nothing to do with virgins and "heaven" (though a little bit of that wouldn't go amis if it's on offer ). It has EVERYTHING to do with the one being worshipped.

  In Old and New Testament texts, what is the reaction of folks to supernatural incarnations (be they "God" or the angel of "God"? There's usually an instant reaction - worship...

  I speak from personal experience when I say that it's spontaneous and has NOTHING to do with reward.
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  tetrapod.sapien

  I'm afraid so. It's the machine code that our operating system resides upon and is seen in every aspect of our lives usually in the form of "awe" (for want of a better word).

  That "awe" shouldn't stop us moving onto the next logical step of thinking "damn that's good - I wonder how that works?".

  This is the difficulty I have with the definition Terry and yourself are using. You seem to be insisting that "magical thinking" is a mind-stopper. Why should it be, when at best it's merely a placeholder for that which we will yet investigate? It's actually ok to think "that's amazing, and I don't have time to investigate it right now because there are too many other things on my plate, but meanwhile I'll label it... hmmm... ectoplasm!".

  LT,

  hmmm...very interesting, and i'm not being sarcastic. i may have to give you this one, as there is nothing to latch onto. i pretty much agree with you, and i can see you have been fair with your wording.

  to me: never lose the awe man, never lose it. it's not worth it.

  TS
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  Shining One

  Seynothing said:
  >The journey from JWism to Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) is nothing more than a jump from the frying pan and into the fire. The replacement of one set of beliefs with an equally comical set of beliefs.
  
  NO, JWism is a cult that abuses the members, spiritually and sometimes physically. You need to look at the difference that Steve Hassan and others show between 'abuse' and 'conversion'. 'Equally comical set of beliefs' also applies to naturalism, it it applies to Christianity.
  
  >Nothing more than a crutch for those that can't accept (or refuse to face) reality.
  
  Your present perception of 'reality' is your own version of self worship. You have replaced JW 'new light' with your own style of 'new light'.
  
  >One religions claims of truth are no more valid than any others. Each and every one should be examined with the same magnifying glass used on the Watchtower. When you do....they all fall.
  
  Really? Perhaps you could outline why each belief system 'falls' and in what way? The truth is that reasoning and logic cannot even begin to analyze the supernatural. It itself is transcendant and is a manifestation of the supernatural. Science cannot explain it and all logic breks down at some point when you attempt to grasp the REALITY of the universe: the undescribable size of the universe and the irreducible complexity of life and the question of origins.
  
  >I see more churchianity than christianity in the world. The JWs are wrong, so I am a Baptist. The Baptists are wrong, so I am a Catholic. The Catholics are wrong, so I am a Lutheran...and on, and on, and on.............
  
  Your feeble and simplistic assertion shows that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, sorry.
  Rex
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  free2beme