ohhhhhhhhh my head hurts
So then does anyone think the WT can drop the 1914 doctrine ????? LOL
The 1914 Doctrine and The Threat of the Egibi Business Tablets
by VM44 349 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Jeffro
It is plain from nearly all of Josephus'; refererences to the seventy years it is singularly used to descrfibe a period of exile, servitude and desolation in accordance with the Bible and the interpretation of celebrfated WT scholars from 607 to 537. Josephus does indeed provide overwhelming secular evidence for our sacred biblical chronology.
Scholar, if this wishful thinking was true, don't you think that at least one person in the professional community would agree with the Society's outlandish interpretations? The Society with its rediculous end-time agenda (and maybe a couple of other similar minor religious groups) are the only ones that endorse the erroneous 607 dogma.
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scholar
Jeffro
Perhaps they are blinded by the Devil or they have not read Josephus or perhaps it betrays some anti-Semitism. Whatever the case I do not care for Josephus plainly states that the seventy years is as I described and provides secular evidence for 607.
scholar JW
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EliJah
Many events did take place around that time that can be referenced in the bible. The bible has lesser and greater fulfillments of prophecy. Anyone could have mistaken this time period as the birth of the Kingdom. However I do not think it would take Jesus Christ this long to take over the world in subjective authority.
Jesus Christ came to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel in order to gather his apostles which he chose. The apostles are described in the book of Revelations:
12 It had a great and lofty wall and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names were inscribed which are those of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. 13 On the east were three gates, and on the north three gates, and on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14 The wall of the city also had twelve foundation stones, and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Many of the prophetic words were given to the offspring of Abraham as the faithful in the beginning. The gentiles were then cleansed by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. THe events in the Middle East fulfill prophecy also, so I believe this period of time to be the one the W.T.S. believes took place in 1914.
EliJah
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Jeffro
Perhaps they are blinded by the Devil or they have not read Josephus or perhaps it betrays some anti-Semitism. Whatever the case I do not care for Josephus plainly states that the seventy years is as I described and provides secular evidence for 607.
They're "blinded by the Devil"? Good grief!
Josephus based his information for this period on the writings of Berossus. The Society doesn't place much credence in the writings of Berossus even though he concurs with Daniel that captives were taken in Nebuchadnezzar's first (accession) year. The Society makes a number of references to Berossus getting his information from that nasty Seleucid Period (snicker), as if that makes the information unreliable. (They say it is too far removed from the actual events). But you are saying that Josephus, basing his information on the same 'unreliable' source, even further removed from the original events, provides evidence for the Society's interpretations.
All of Josephus' references to the seventy years can be reconciled with the fact that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587. Additionally, he is in agreement that captives were first taken about 70 years prior to their return from Babylon (in Nebuchadnezzar's accession year).
According to Jeremiah 52:29, there were only 832 exiles taken in Nebuchadnezzar's 18th year anyway (though 2 Kings 24:14 indicates about 10,000+ were taken) According to Jeremiah 52:28, 3023 Jews were taken 11 years prior, and if Jeremiah is consistent, then this may reflect a much larger number also. You would have us believe that when this group of Jews arrived at Babylon in Nebuchadnezzar's 18th year, they met up with the other 3023 (or more) exiles from Nebuchadnezzar's 7th year, and said "Hey chaps, we've decided not to bother counting the eleven years you've been here" - very unlikely, even if they could speak English. (Not to mention the captives that were taken as booty in Nebuchadnezzar's accession year earlier still.) Further, if there were more exiles taken than Jeremiah bothered to mention, then his omission also provides no basis for your previous allegation that captives were not taken in Nebuchadnezzar's accession year.
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OldSoul
vitty,
The CCoJW can do whatever they want with teachings from the Bible. The sheep-like and sincere Witnesses, who have been dumbed down for years, will go along for the most part. The CCoJW take calculated risks with changes in teachings knowing full well that some will fall away. But they show their ardent concern for the spiritual welfare of those who leave, by blaming those who leave for "going beyond what is written" and engaging in "speculation".
Respectfully,
OldSoul -
vitty
Personally, I think the WT can drop any doctrine, any time. If they can get away with the 1975 fiasco and then the generation change in 95 they can do anything.
I try and think how they got away with the " By the way, your not going to heaven after all but are going to live forever on earth" Can you imagine sitting in church one day and the pope announcing the same thing !!!!!!! How did the ordinary JW accept that.
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ithinkisee
If they can get away with the 1975 fiasco and then the generation change in 95 they can do anything.
Exactly exactly exactly!
When the generation change happened in 1995, I specifically remember thinking those EXACT words in my mind: "If they can change the generation teaching, they can change ANYTHING!"
I still remember the pit in my stomach like it was yesterday. Too bad it took me 10 years to work my way out of the cognitive dissonance loop.
-ithinkisee
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scholar
Jeffro
Your argument is flawed by the simple fact that there is no evidence that Nebuchadnezzer took Jewish captives in his accession year. All of Josephus' references to the seventy years are easily reconciled to the basic fact that these ended at Cyrus in 537 and began with the conflagration of Jerusalem in 607. More to the point is how he describes the seventy years as a period of exile, servitude and desolation which coincides with the Bible and that of celebrated WT scholars.
scholar JW
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Jeffro
Your argument is flawed by the simple fact that there is no evidence that Nebuchadnezzer took Jewish captives in his accession year.
(Technically, it was before his actual accession to the throne, on his return to Babylon, however it was in the same year that he took the throne, i.e., his 'accession year'.) There is evidence that he took booty, and booty very often included captives. There is also no evidence of the missing twenty years for the Society's spurious gap... are you therefore acknowledging that the Society's "argument is flawed by the simple fact that there is no evidence"? Or are you taking the position that there should be more evidence for a single event than there should for an entire 20-year period?
All of Josephus' references to the seventy years are easily reconciled to the basic fact that these ended at Cyrus in 537 and began with the conflagration of Jerusalem in 607.
There is no evidence of a "conflagration of Jerusalem in 607". On what is your "basic fact" based?
More to the point is how he describes the seventy years as a period of exile, servitude and desolation which coincides with the Bible and that of celebrated WT scholars.
Indeed. Jeremiah 52:28-30 indicates that more people were exiled in Nebuchadnezzar's 7th year than in his 18th, so this would place the period of exile earlier than alleged by the Society even if the captives taken in his accession year are ignored. But because the 70 years is actually of 'nations serving Babylon', after which Babylon was 'called to account' (Jeremiah 25:11-12), it need not.