The 1914 Doctrine and The Threat of the Egibi Business Tablets

by VM44 349 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • scholar
    scholar

    Alleymom

    Marjorie

    My research on malkut is a work in progress in relation to its appearance in Daniel 1:1. It is true that in previous posts I promoted the view that vassalage was a constituent of the kingship of Jehoiakim and all of the evidence suggests that this is correct. However, the Hebrew word in this case has been interpreted by Jewish commentators as referring to the last three years of his vassalage and I will be posting this specific reference shortly. However, other scholars have further discussed wider theological implications of this term particular the famous and notable scholar of Daniel, one Klaus Koch in his German commentary on Daniel. I have access to these volumes and will have the material photocopied and translated into English shortly.

    It is correct to say that this new exegesis of Daniel 1:1 is not found in WT literature and is of my own origination based upon the careful observation of 'kingship' and the wider meaning of 'malkut' in Daniel 1:1 and so I believe that there is a solid basis for associating the concept of vassalage with kingship in relation to the 'third year of Jehoiakim'. Of course, it is early days and I have much research to do in order to confirm my hypothesis but at this stage things are looking good.

    scholar JW

  • scholar
    scholar

    Alleymom

    Marjorie

    I find Gumby's comments discorteous and offensive. I have never regarded serious-minded Bible scholars as demon-inspired monsters. What I do say that scholars have allowed themselves to be influenced by higher criticism which in turn devalues the inspiration of the Bible and of course the Devil tries to use any means to subvert the faith of God's Word by the use of wordly wisdom.

    No, you are not a demon inspired hater of Jehovah but I hope you are a searcher and a lover of truth and ones' salvation is not determined by a certain creed or doctrine there is personal responsibility for each one to search for Jehovah and learn the truth revealed in his Word, by his Holy Spirit and by his organization. How each one stands at that final hour is a matter between God, his Son and the individual concerned.

    scholar JW

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    You should read the article by Robert Young first before commenting on the use of methodology and method or the contrast between an event based/regnal based chronology. These are my terms and my view of matters and I care nought for your view that our model is doctrine based. So what, have I not said that any chronology is based upon interpretation which means that the scholar brings along his presuppositions about the matter which determines his model. That is why there are so many conflicting chronologies, each reflecting a different view of matters so one could say that all chronologies are doctrine based.

    You claim to base your Judean Monarchy solely on the Bible and that is a very noble view but your account of the seventy years is not Bible based but is ignored or compromised by your priority to the Babylonian kings at the expense of the biblical history for that period.

    Your model is spawned by higher critics who ignore what God's Word says directly about matters showing no interest in prophecy which can fulfill the Devil's work. The Devil misleads the majority including scholars who fail to listen to prophecy and ridicules those loyal Witnesses who fulfill prophecy by loyally proclaiming the good news.

    scholar JW

  • exjdub
    exjdub
    personal responsibility for each one to search for Jehovah and learn the truth revealed in his Word, by his Holy Spirit and by his organization. How each one stands at that final hour is a matter between God, his Son and the individual concerned.

    Which is JW double speak for: Yes, you are going to be destroyed. Look at the funny Troll, he is so predictable and funny too!!

    exjdub

  • The Chuckler
    The Chuckler
    My research on malkut is a work in progress in relation to its appearance in Daniel 1:1.

    LOL ..dependant on JW doctrine. You're just malkut-tent.

    There is a way to reconcile both positions and it is very simple.

    Daniel was an apostate. So he didn't know what he was writing - he was actually a Jehovah hater who really wanted jiggy jig with demons.

  • Cygnus
    Cygnus

    Oh my goodness, the book of Daniel is well attested to being written around the 2nd century BCE and is not contemporary with the fall of Jerusalem or contains any prophecies whatsoever. All this "markut" business and how Daniel's version of the "desolations of Jerusalem" (2:1) really amount to squat. Besides, if God really wanted us nearing the year 2006 to make an algebraic formula out of the entire mess to figure out the end of the Gentile Times he'd have had Jesus make it a lot more clear. Schlolar, you're wasting your time. Submit your research to the Service or Writing Department and spare us from your barely intelligible gobbledegook.

  • gumby
    gumby
    there is personal responsibility for each one to search for Jehovah and learn the truth revealed in his Word, by his Holy Spirit and by his organization. How each one stands at that final hour is a matter between God, his Son and the individual concerned.

    I'd like everyone here to take a second look at what scholar just said in the bold typed words above.

    His statement above tells us that to search for Jehovah....we must use the channel of the "Organisation" as a means to do so. Scholar KNOWS that good Jehovahs witnesses do not re-search anything on their OWN if it involves "new truths" not already revealed by the Faithful Slave in print. Jehovahs Witnesses are to promote and believe themselves all current truths regarding ANY teaching the Slave Class themselves believe are are NOT to deviate from their current understanding of any matter.

    Look at his statements below and see that he has "run ahead" of the Organisation he himself feels is responsible for feeding new bible truths to those who love Jehovah. He has independantly assumed the role of the SlaveClass and has the pridefull spirit of running ahead of Jehovahs channel.

    My research on malkut is a work in progress in relation to its appearance in Daniel 1:1. I have access to these volumes and will have the material photocopied and translated into English shortly.

    It is correct to say that this new exegesis of Daniel 1:1 is not found in WT literature and is of my own origination and so I believe that there is a solid basis for associating the concept of vassalage with kingship in relation to the 'third year of Jehoiakim'. Of course, it is early days and I have much research to do in order to confirm my hypothesis but at this stage things are looking good.

    Scholar........do you suppose if I sent this to the Service Dept.......they would applaud you for this fine work of yours..........or would they label you an apostate as they have the rest of us here?

    Please answer this for all on this board to read.

    Gumby

  • scholar
    scholar

    gumby

    Our organization is based on Christian freedom and if an individual has an intellectual contribution then that should be prepared in a proper format as one would do if his research was to be submitted as paper to a journal publisher. Then such a sincere person would send a covering letter with the material and simply leave the matter in the hands of those responsible for the writing up of articles such as the Writing Committee of the Governing Body. Such a sincere and humble individual would not seek to promote his views to others especially if the material is of a controversial nature.

    Such an individual could submit his material to a journal publisher for publication or even have it published as a book so there are many opportunities available for those who are thus interested.

    How I chose to handle any new research available to me on chronology will depend on future circumstances, I may simply be content to simply argue the points on this forum in defense of our wondrous chronology or in other personal contact.

    scholar JW

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    Our organization is based on Christian freedom and if an individual has an intellectual contribution then that should be prepared in a proper format as one would do if his research was to be submitted as paper to a journal publisher. Then such a sincere person would send a covering letter with the material and simply leave the matter in the hands of those responsible for the writing up of articles such as the Writing Committee of the Governing Body.

    Yeah right. So are you one of anointed F&DS class, providing food at the proper time? No? Then why would you feed such an "intellectual contribution" to God's F&DS when it is the F&DS that is supposed to be doing the feeding? I doubt the F&DS is interested in the "private interpretation" of one of the "other sheep" who should instead wait on Jehovah to receive his own "intellectual nourishment" from the F&DS. The publications say that you can certainly ask questions to the F&DS of things you do not understand, but you definitely should not advance your own interpretations that contradict the "present truth" that the F&DS currently teaches. If you disagree, you should instead patiently wait for the Society to correct itself, rather than presumptuously try to prevert the appointed roles and try to feed the F&DS yourself. If you disagree, please point to anywhere in the Society's publications where they invite such "intellectual contributions" from the great crowd of other sheep.

  • kid-A
    kid-A

    "OUR WONDROUS CHRONOLOGY" -WT Scholar

    Watchtower False Prophecies

    Jehovah's Witness leaders for over 100 years have claimed to be God's only living "prophet" on the face of the earth. However, if one looks at their record, the documented evidence proves they are what Jesus described as "false prophets!" Most Jehovah's Witnesses have no clue about the true history of their organization. Remember what Jesus said: "And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many." (Mat. 24:11)

    Check out the documented evidence listed by year:

    1877 'The End Of This World; that is the end of the gospel and the beginning of the millennial age is nearer than most men suppose; indeed we have already entered the transition period, which is to be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation Dan. 12:3." (N.H. Barbour and C.T. Russell, Three Worlds, and the Harvest of This World, p. 17).
    1879 "Christ came in the character of a Bridegroom in 1874.... at the beginning of the Gospel harvest." (Watchtower, Oct 1879, p. 4)
    1880 "We need not here repeat the evidences that the "seventh trump" began its sounding A.D., 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of trouble, and the end of "The times of the Gentiles," A.D., 1914, and that it is the trouble of this "Great day," which is here symbolically called the voice of the Archangel when he begins the deliverance of fleshly Israel. "At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince (Archangel) which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation." Dan. xii. 1. Nor will we here, again present the conclusive Bible proof that our Lord came for his Bride in 1874, and has an unseen work as Reaper of the first-fruits of this Gospel Age. (Zion's Watchtower November, 1880 p. 1)
    1886 "The outlook at the opening of the New Year has some very encouraging features. The outward evidences are that the marshaling of the hosts for the battle of the great day of God Almighty, is in progress while the skirmishing is commencing. … The time is come for Messiah to take the dominion of earth and to overthrow the oppressors and corrupters of the earth, (Rev. 19:15 and 11:17, 18) preparatory to the establishment of everlasting peace upon the only firm foundation of righteousness and truth." (Zion's Watchtower, January, 1886;Watchtower reprints I, p. 817)
    1888 "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)
    1889 "Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, The Time Is At Hand, 1889 Ed., p. 101. The 1915 Edition of this texts changed "A.D. 1914" to read 'A.D. 1915')
    1889 "Here we furnish the evidence that from the creation of Adam to (but not including) A.D. 1873 was six thousand years. And though the Bible contains no direct statement that the seventh thousand will be the epoch of Christ's reign, the great Sabbath Day of restitution to the world, yet the venerable tradition is not without a reasonable foundation." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 39. 1889)
    1889 "If, then, the seventh thousand-year period of earth's history be an epoch specially noted as the period of Christ's reign, we shall by showing that it began in 1873, be proving that we are already in it." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 40. 1889)
    1889 "In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 98-99, 1889)
    1889 "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence which indicates that six thousand years from the creation of Adam were complete with A.D. 1872; and hence that, since A.D. 1872 are chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the Millennium." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 33, 1889)
    1889 "Remember that the forty years' Jewish Harvest ended October A.D. 69, and was followed by the complete overthrow of that nation; and that likewise the forty years of the Gospel age harvest will end October, 1914, and that likewise the overthrow of 'Christendom,' so-called, must be expected to immediately follow." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 245)
    1894 "Seventeen years ago people said, concerning the time features presented in Millennial Dawn, They seem reasonable in many respects, but surely no such radical changes could occur between now and the close of 1914: if you had proved that they would come about in a century or two, it would seem much more probable. What changes have since occurred, and what velocity is gained daily? 'The old is quickly passing and the new is coming in.' Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They say that they do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures-nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." (Zion's Watchtower, Can It Be Delayed until 1914? C. T. Russell July 15, 1894, Also in Watchtower Reprints, l894 p. 1677)
    1894 "A few more years will wind up the present order of things, and then the chastened world will stand face to face with the actual conditions of the established Kingdom of God. And yet the course of the Church is to be finished within the space of time that intervenes." (Watchtower p. 56, 1894)
    1894 "We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." (Watchtower July 15, 1894, p 266; p 1677 reprints)
    1894 "We see no reason for changing the figures nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, Gods dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." (Watchtower, July 15, 1894, Reprints p. 1677)
    1897 "...this measurement is 3416 inches, symbolizing 3416 years.... This calculation shows A.D. 1874 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble...." (Russell, Studies in the Scriptures: Thy Kingdom Come, Series III, p. 342, 1897 edition)

    Note: The 1916 edition changed to read: "We find it to be 3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years.... Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble...." (The measurement was the length of an interior passageway discovered inside the Pyramids. It has no reference in Scripture.)

    1897 "Complete destruction of the 'powers that be' of 'this present evil worlds - political, financial, ecclesiastical - about the close of the Time of the Gentiles; October A.D. 1914." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, IV, p. 622, 1897)
    1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874, A.D....and the formal inauguration of his kingly office dates from April 1878, A.D." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol.4, p.621, 1897)
    1897 "The distillery, the brewery, the saloon, the brothel, the pool-room, all time-killing and character-depraving business will be stopped; and their servants will be given something to do that will be beneficial to themselves and others. "Similarly, the building of war-vessels, the manufacture of munitions of war and defense will cease, and armies will be disbanded. The new Kingdom will have no need of these, but will have abundant power to execute summary justice in the punishment of evil doers... "The banking and brokerage business, and other like employment's, very useful under present conditions, will no longer have a place; for under the new conditions the human race will be required to treat each others as members of one family, and private capital and money to loan and to be needed will be things of the past. Landlords and renting agencies will find new employment also, because the new King will not recognize as valid patents and deeds now on record. "...namely, that with present conveniences, if the whole people were put to work systematically and wisely, not more than three hours labor for each individual would be necessary." (Studies, Vol. IV, pp. 633-635, 1897)
    1902 "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99)
    1903 "When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the humane sign of Aquarius in 1914, the long-promised era will have made a fair start in the work of setting man free to work out his own salvation, and will insure the ultimate realization of dreams and ideals of all poets and sages in history." (Watchtower, May 1, 1903, p. 130-131; p3184 Reprints)
    1904 "According to our expectations the stress of the great time of trouble will be on us soon, somewhere between 1910 and 1912, culminating with the end of the 'Times of the Gentiles,' October, 1914." (The New Creation, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 6, p. 579, 1904)
    1908 "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A. D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1908 ed.; p. 99)
    1908 "True, it is expecting great things to claim, as we do, that within the coming twenty-six years all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved" (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1908 ed.; p. 99)
    1914 "Even if the time of our change should not come within ten years, what more should we ask? Are we not a blessed, happy people? Is not our God faithful? If anyone knows anything better, let him take it. If any of you ever find anything better, we hope you will tell us." (Watchtower, Dec 15, 1914, p. 376.)
    1914 "Studying God's Word, we have measured the 2520 years, the seven symbolic times, from that year 606 B.C. and have found that it reached down to October 1914, as nearly as we were able to reckon. We did not say positively that this would be the year." (Watchtower, November 1, 1914, p. 325)
    1914 "While it's possible that Armageddon may begin next Spring, yet this purely speculation to attempt to say just when. We see, however, that there are parallels between the close of the Jewish age and this Gospel age. These parallels seem to point to the year just before us part particularly the early months." (Watchtower Reprints, VI, Sept 1, 1914, p. 5527)
    1914 "There is absolutely no ground for Bible students to question that the consummation of this Gospel age is now even at the door, and that it will end as the Scriptures foretell in a great time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation. We see the participants in this great crisis banding themselves together… The great crisis, the great clash, symbolically represented as a fire, that will consume the ecclesiastical heavens and the social earth, is very near." (Watchtower Reprints, VI, May 1, 1914, p. 5450)

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