The 1914 Doctrine and The Threat of the Egibi Business Tablets

by VM44 349 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Jeffro

  'Scholar'

  Such interpretation is nicely confirmed by the fact that 1914 ended the Gentile Times with the Kingdom established in heaven as evidenced by the ourbreak of the Great War in 1914.

  The outbreak of World War I in June of 1914 does not in any way provide any proof whatsoever for a prophecy of the Bible Students to be fulfilled "with suddenness and force not long after October, 1914" (The Watchtower, 15 May 1911). Additionally you have not provided any justification for applying the Gentile Times to a period beginning prior to 70AD as required by the original language in the book of Luke.

  Historians are aware of the fact that there were many 'great wars' or conflicts in modern history but the significance of 1914 as the truly Great War or First World War is not seriously challenged by competent historians, statesmen and intellectuals.

  Your use of the word 'competent' is an 'emporor's new clothes' gimmick, to make it seem that anyone who disagrees with your position is therefore 'incompetent'. It is akin to expressions such as "all intelligent people realise", "thinking people agree" etc.

  The mere appearance of your little book simply reflects a novel opinion but remember that terms of 'Great War' and 'First World War' were not coined by us but by wordly historians so if you have a beef about this matter then take the matter up with wordly historians.

  They are still simply labels, and do not at all reflect the early Bible Students' prophecies of what would supposedly occur. Indeed not all nations of the world were involved in World War I.
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  ackack

  Besides which, Great War was applied to the Napoleonic Wars prior to WW1.

  ackack
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  Jeffro

  I believe that this progress in scholarship can be discerned because of a number of journal articles dealing with methodology in chronology with a revision of Thiele's pioneering work, Tetley's hypothesis and scholarship concerning the' Babylonian Gap'.

  To be blunt, I don't think anyone really cares what you believe because almost every sentence you post is either misleading or completely erroroneous. You cannot actually indicate any specific examples that lead scholarship away from the period surrounding 587, and certainly nothing that points to 607. Further, you claim to uphold Witness beliefs, but post on a website which you have been instructed by your "celebrated WT scholars" not to even look at.

  Jeremiah 25 concerns Judah only and the seventy years can only include servitude to the rulership in Babylon, desolation of the land and the Babylonian exile which ended with the decree and release of Cyrus in 537 as attested by Josephus.

  It is patently obvious that Jeremiah 25 refers to the entire region, and saying anything else is a deliberate distortion of the facts, as is the assertion that the period ended some time after the calling to account of Babylon's king in 539BC.

  The Isaiah commentary explicitly states that the nations including Tyre would serve and be under Babylonian domination for seventy years which was also the case with Judah in which such servitude was also to include exile to Babylon and the land desolate for seventy years. The fore-mentioned commentary only focusses on the nations servitude to Babylon which is only one element of Jeremiah's seventy years prophecy.

  Your statement here conflicts with your previous statement that Jeremiah 25 does not refer to nations other than Judah. Even if you were right about applying the period to exile (which you are not), the ending of the seventy year period is restricted to ending in 539, as is indicated in the Isaiah book.
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  scholar

  Jeffro

  The facts of modern history most certainly confirm with the outbreak of the Great War in 1914 that this marked the end of the Gentile Times and the birth of God's Kingdom as foretold by our Lord. The events that soon followed marked the Lord's presence as set forth in His Olivet Discourse. The original language at Like 21;24 certainly shows that the Gentile Times has already commenced and were in a present state with a future fulfillment.

  scholar JW
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  scholar

  ackack

  My purpose in raising the matter of the Babylonian Gap hypothesis is because it has become a recent debate within scholarship over a re-interpretation of the history of Judah during that critical late Exilic period of Judean history. Celebrated WT scholars have long argued that the land of Judah was desolate for a period of seventy years and this view of history has until now been rather ignored or trivialized by scholars for the the past century.

  Now, scholars are having a rethink about whatt actually happened to Judah during the captivity and exile to Babylon and although there is no change in respects to chronology, such scholars are at least reinterpreting the history of that period. This is important because chronology depends on an accurate history so iif scholars get the history right then they may later revise the chronology. WT scholars are very interested in this debate and are well pleased that their historical reconstruction is at last being slowly recognized.

  scholar JW
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  Leolaia

  He is following the lead of Rolf Furuli, who quotes Stern's BAR article "regarding the desolate condition of Juda [sic]," to wit ("Persian Chronology," p. 91):

  "For roughly half a century -- from 604 BCE to 538 BCE -- there is a complete gap in the evidence suggesting occupation."

  Of course, Stern maintains that there was occupation in Benjamin and at new settlements and has mentioned this in his 2004 paper. I don't have the 2000 BAR article in front of me to know whether Furuli is misrepresenting Stern (implying that the entire land was uninhabited), or if Stern made such a claim initially...
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  Leolaia

  pseudo-scholar....Isn't it true that BOTH sides of the Gap debate maintain that there was some settlement and occapation in the land? How is this supposed to support your claim that the ENTIRE land of Judah as a whole was completely uninhabited for 70 years? They all point to direct factual evidence showing that people continued to live on the land throughout the Neo-Babylonian period. The Babylonian Gap pertains to some sites, not all of them...
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  scholar

  Leolaia

  Yes, I am fully aware that both sides of the Babylonian Gap debate advocate that Judah was partially populated during the Exilic period but the point is that scholars are at least talking about this crucial subject so the debate is moving, moving perhaps to the scriptural statement that the land was totally devasted without an inhabitant.

  So, I find this debate a partial confirmation of the historical re-construction of Late Judean history advocated by celebrated WT scholars. For, your information I became aware of Stern's article and others long before I read Furuli whose analysis of the seventy years in my view relies too much on linguistics at the expense of the theological considerations. I notice that Jonsson in his 4th edn of GTR omits any reference to the Babylonian Gap debate which shows that his hypothesis is too biased and ignorant.

  scholar JW
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  scholar

  Jeffro

  Frankly, I do not care whether readers of my posts are interested or not in what I have to say on matters. I have simply raised issues that are at the embryonic stage within scholarship that confirm the fact that chronology is in state of flux and is moving in the direction of abandoning current and long held views. What these developments prove is that there chronology is all about methodology and interpretation and that our divine chronology is a valid chronology based on secular-historical and biblical evidence.

  Celebrated WT scholars have not instructed or forbidden me to post on this website as this group is fully occupied in researching and promoting God's Word. They are happy to leave little old scholar alone to do his little bit and get up the nose of apostates who tremble at scholar's research.

  Jeremiah 25 is addressed to Judah but some of the oracles apply to those surrounding nations from verse 12 through to the next chapter. Therefore, such oracles had a ongoing fulfillment long after 539 as was the case with Babylon.

  My comment on the Isaiah commentary does not conflict with my previous comment because you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill whereupon this commentary merely confirms the fact that the seventy years involved servitude to ther dominant Babylon as one of the elements of the seventy year oracle. I have told you repeatedly that the seventy years involves the three elements of servitude-desolation-exile with such elements ending in unison at 537.

  scholar JW
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  Jeffro

  Frankly, I do not care whether readers of my posts are interested or not in what I have to say on matters. I have simply raised issues that are at the embryonic stage within scholarship that confirm the fact that chronology is in state of flux and is moving in the direction of abandoning current and long held views. What these developments prove is that there chronology is all about methodology and interpretation and that our divine chronology is a valid chronology based on secular-historical and biblical evidence.

  You didn't simply say that scholarship is "moving in the direction of abandoning current and long held views", but in addition contended that it is moving toward 607 as "the only possible date", and it is this statement that is nothing but a lie.

  Celebrated WT scholars have not instructed or forbidden me to post on this website as this group is fully occupied in researching and promoting God's Word. They are happy to leave little old scholar alone to do his little bit and get up the nose of apostates who tremble at scholar's research.

  Only happy insofar as ignorance is bliss. If your elders knew you were here, I am quite positive that they would have something to say about it - unless they too are breaching the specific direction from the "slave class".

  Jeremiah 25 is addressed to Judah but some of the oracles apply to those surrounding nations from verse 12 through to the next chapter. Therefore, such oracles had a ongoing fulfillment long after 539 as was the case with Babylon.

  Your suggestion here requires completely ignoring the quite clear wording of verses 8 to 11 which clearly indicate the entire region, not just Judah. All readers of this forum can easily verify this for themselves and see your lies for what they are.

  My comment on the Isaiah commentary does not conflict with my previous comment because you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill whereupon this commentary merely confirms the fact that the seventy years involved servitude to ther dominant Babylon as one of the elements of the seventy year oracle. I have told you repeatedly that the seventy years involves the three elements of servitude-desolation-exile with such elements ending in unison at 537.

  Repeating a lie over and over again does not make it any more true.